Relationships Matter Live

Emotional Triggers & Healing with Dr. Spirit

• Chanel Scott and Josh Powell

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Have you ever wondered how your past influences your present and future, especially in your relationships? We're thrilled to have the highly esteemed Dr. Spirit, a certified therapist, unravel this mystery in our latest podcast episode. Dr. Spirit enlightens us on the profound impacts of emotional triggers, typically shaped by childhood experiences and traumas, and often left unaddressed. From silence, poverty, racism to learning disabilities, she uncovers the many factors that can birth these triggers, and highlights the transformative power of therapy in healing and personal growth.

Navigating relationships can be tricky, but have no fear, Dr. Spirit expertly guides us through it. She helps us understand the fear of rejection, the power of setting healthy boundaries, and how to overcome insecurities. We delve into the uncanny connection between our past and our behavior in relationships. How often have you found yourself in familiar patterns of behavior without understanding why? Or felt the dread of vulnerability in a relationship? Dr. Spirit equips us with tools to address these fears and guides us in understanding our emotions, thoughts, and behavior.

The episode takes a deeper turn as we explore the profound impact of trauma on our lives and relationships, and how it's sometimes passed down through generations. This leads us into a vital discussion on healing and self-care, and how to break free from the cycle of intergenerational trauma. We conclude by acknowledging the importance of recognizing our worth, the strength of healing together, and the immense dedication of Dr. Spirit to helping individuals navigate their healing journey. Tune in for an enlightening discussion on emotional triggers, relationships, and the power of healing.

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Opposing experiences, a single woman and a married man, Chanel Scott, and Josh Powell, create a powerful and empathetic team, offering valuable insights and advice on navigating the complexities of romantic relationships and promoting healthier, more fulfilling connections.

Join Chanel and Josh as they unlock the secrets of successful relationships one conversation at a time.


Chanel Scott:

Welcome to the Relationships of Matter podcast.

Josh Powell:

I'm Chanel Scott and I am Josh Powell.

Chanel Scott:

So today we're going to be talking about emotional triggers. We have a very special guest here tonight, dr Spirit. We're so excited. We've been waiting to have you. Dr Spirit is a licensed therapist, tv radio host and the owner of T2S Enterprises, a mental health service that strives to help people achieve the types of relationships they dream of having, beginning with themselves. So today we're going to be talking about emotional triggers, and I'm looking forward. I don't know if anybody else is.

Chanel Scott:

I'm looking forward to asking you tremendous amount of questions regarding this topic. I just want to jump right in and I just want to ask what does being triggered really mean, and is it normal to be triggered by your partner?

Dr. Spirit:

Well, it's normal to be triggered by everything around us.

Dr. Spirit:

And what that really means. To be triggered is to have things touched that are sensitive parts of us, and so, unfortunately, or fortunately, part of the human experiences that we carry wounds, hurts, pain, disappointment, rejection, abandonment you name it. And so the environments are constantly triggering us because most of us haven't done our work to heal ourselves, and so when I talk about healing, I usually say that it is healing as a lifelong journey and process. So we're constantly being rewounded, and if we don't do the work constantly to be able to manage and heal and rehabilitate those wounds, we will be triggered by everything and everybody around us.

Chanel Scott:

Okay. So I want to ask how do you practically do the work, like, where do we start with?

Dr. Spirit:

the work I love to tell people therapy, therapy and you know, therapy for a lot of us, really, in all seriousness, is a luxury. It is something that for many generations we had not had the ability to do, and even once we did, a lot of us had suffered so much harm by the health care system that it wasn't a trusted place for us. And so, especially in communities of color, as we are part of the global majority, many of us sought out the church. We sought out our elders. You know, sitting at the feet of big mama for generations was the way to do it, but we didn't even understand the hurt that she carried and the way that even opening up a lot of those things was triggering for her.

Dr. Spirit:

And so you know, we sit in a world nowadays where we say, even to go to therapy is difficult, because what people don't understand is it requires you to be in three places at one time. So when you are dealing with therapy, you are dealing with your triggers or all of the trauma that you've carried with you. So we're, in the past, constantly trying to focus on how to deal with everything we have to deal with right now as we prepare for everything that is yet to come, and so it's a lot of work all at one time, and it's it can be overwhelming for a lot of folks. It can be triggering in and of itself.

Josh Powell:

So when you talked about traumas and triggers, where does a bulk of it stem and what part of our life? Because I think this is important for people to understand when we're talking relationships.

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah, I think that most of it comes from our childhood and it is something that people don't understand.

Dr. Spirit:

So when we talk about mental health or mental wellness, mental illness, most people don't even realize that 50% of all mental illness develops before the age of 14, 50% and 75% before the age of 23.

Dr. Spirit:

And so that means that most of us are experiencing things in our childhood that, unfortunately, we don't have the capacity to be able to deal with and we don't get the help that we need, and so we carry that with us for decades and so we don't make the connections. Also, that the things that we experience at any point of our life affects the rest of our life until we're able to deal with it. So I'll have people that will come into therapy at 40, 50, 60 years old who have not dealt with child sexual abuse, the divorce of their parents, an absent parent, the passing of a grandparent, the first heartbreak in adolescence, the divorce that they had in their 20s, the tragedies around childbirth, the heartbreaks of teachers or coaches, and all the things that we carry that they think for some reason it should just go away or it shouldn't matter. And unfortunately, then when they get into relationships where they are wounded or they experience similar experiences that are unresolved, that becomes triggering and they don't understand what it's connected to.

Josh Powell:

Before I kick it back to Chanel, I got one more question. What are some triggers or traumas that people don't identify as triggers or traumas? Because, it's easy to say a death. Most people don't think of a breakup as something that could be that it's easy to say abuse or anything like that. What have you seen in your profession like that are things that people don't identify with.

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah, I would say it's things like being silenced as a child, not really being paid attention to, especially in generations where we were taught children are to be seen and not heard. Right, or you will do what you were told. Or having older siblings, sometimes, where you are the youngest or the middle child who receives hand-me-downs and never gets anything new, because poverty, poverty can be a trigger. Racism, a huge one, misogyny, a huge one, I would say. Learning disabilities is another one. Autism Most folks don't even realize that they are on the spectrum.

Dr. Spirit:

Adhd, dyslexia, problems that were learning issues that were never addressed, that kind of floated under the radar. But those individuals knew that they were struggling in school and they often look like behavior problems. And so discipline was put in place where treatment should have been. And so people come into adulthood and they have decided at different points in their lives man, when I'm a grown up, I can't wait. I'm never going to let people treat me a certain way, I'm never going to let people talk to me a certain way. And so they come into adulthood and they come into relationships with people and I tell folks all the time that your adult relationships are doing one of two things they are allowing you to heal those traumas of the past or they are allowing you to recreate and reenact those. And so we, subconsciously, will choose partners, whether they are romantic partners, friends, coworkers, colleagues, you name it. We will choose relationships that mirror those childhood, childhood experiences that we haven't been able to resolve, and we will reenact them.

Dr. Spirit:

And so then you don't even recognize how did I wind up marrying somebody who is just like my mother? I said I would never be with somebody like her. You hear, man, you are just like your father. Well, I didn't know my father, but you are just like him. And so there are all of these, and we haven't even talked about the intergenerational trauma, because what happens to our ancestors, our grandparents, our great grandparents, all of it gets passed down in our learning, in our lessons, in our heartbreak, in the ways that we are raised, and our parents are often teaching us what it is that they learned. And so I love to tell people we are constantly being raised and prepared for a world that no longer exists, because, even us, the lessons that our parents gave us were the ones they got from their parents and we're in 2023. And most of our grandparents were late 1800s to the early 20s, 30s and 40s. That world is gone, and so even that can be traumatic and we don't even realize it.

Chanel Scott:

Okay, how do you identify when you're being triggered over against. If you're just dissatisfied with a particular situation, how can you identify that? Okay, is that a trigger, or is that something that I'm just not happy with in this moment? Or is it something that? I carry. You know from what which? How do you know the difference?

Dr. Spirit:

Well, it's a great question, and the reality is they're really one in the same, because dissatisfaction is a triggered emotion, right? So all the trigger is just to say that an emotion has been raised, and the question is are you connected to what that emotion is and what it's trying to signal to you? So if I'm being, if I'm in a situation where I'm experiencing dissatisfaction, what am I dissatisfied with? Your body is actually giving you, it's whispering to you. There is something here that needs to change, and so the emotion that you don't want to feel when, once we get really good and about feelings and understanding the way it works is if I'm feeling dissatisfied, that means I have a need for satisfaction. What is it that needs to be satisfied? What changes have to happen in my life or in this relationship or the circumstance so I can move from dissatisfaction to satisfaction? Every emotion that is triggered in us is communicating something to us in order to move us towards wellness.

Josh Powell:

We'll talk about it later, when we get back. Relationships matter Podcasts. Relationships matter. I need you to understand.

Chanel Scott:

Relationships matter. Welcome back to Relationships Matter, the podcast. We're here with Dr Spirit and we're talking about emotional triggers, so I'm going to take advantage of you being here today.

Chanel Scott:

And I want to talk about the show, the premise of the show. We deal with romantic relationships. I mean, we deal with our relationships, with mainly romantic relationships, one of my favorites and one of the struggles that I have had. I'm 49 years old, never married, no children, and in my life I have experienced a tremendous amount of rejection and I noticed that in any relationship or friendship, those wounds, they continue to resurface and I don't care how much I think I've done work, something will always come up. I don't care what it is, you'll think you're good. It'll come up and it's like how do you address that? How do you Like?

Chanel Scott:

I recognize at this age that whatever relationship didn't work out, it wasn't supposed to work out, like in most times, I'll see why it didn't work out and we'll be grateful Okay, god, I'm so glad that you didn't allow that. You didn't allow that to work out, but I still carry the wounds. So when I enter into a new friendship or relationship, those wounds of rejection I have this complex about not being chosen, because just about any significant relationship in my life, from the time that I was old enough to date, has resulted in me not being the one chosen.

Dr. Spirit:

Well tell me about how you do relationship that puts you in the position to be chosen versus doing the choosing.

Chanel Scott:

Well, for one I mean not knowing who I, not knowing my self-worth, and I understand that and not knowing who I am and not knowing my purpose, which I now tapped into. So I recognize that that's how I got caught up in situations where I allowed certain scenarios to go on way past their due date Right and so. But then I guess, just like now, I don't think I was staying a situation that didn't serve me or where I wasn't being treated well. But in times past I overstayed, because I either just wanted what I wanted I know it's an issue of control, I recognize that or just not knowing how to walk away, or just not thinking that there was better.

Chanel Scott:

For some reason, especially when you're in love, you don't think that it's always better. Now that has proven to be true, but in those moments you don't think that there's anyone better. Now they could be treating you like crap, but you're like it's no one better. I just wanna be with that person and that's because we. I know in the past I would live vicariously through certain situations or attach my value to a man because I didn't know who I was and I didn't know my value, and so that's what kept me like I don't know, caught up in these crazy situations in the past. But then, like now, I don't do that, but I still carry the hurt.

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah. So that's why it's so important for us to do our work, because here's the interesting thing is that when we haven't done our work, the versions of ourselves that people are attracted to are going to be people and experiences that we don't wanna have, because like attracts like, and so if you are sitting in a situation with somebody one, I always tell people when they are starting therapy. If they don't have a partner, I tell them I would highly encourage you not to date during this time, unless you're dating either for practice or you're dating just for companionship. But the idea of dating to find a life made at this point is not going to be what you want, because you are gonna choose someone who is attracted to the unhealed version of you and how you look on the other side of healing as a whole complete, healthy person with new perspectives, new desires, new needs, new goals, new places that you wanna go. That person may not be compatible with that, and so unfortunately, especially for women, we sit in a vantage point of being chosen. If he likes us, sure I'll give it a try.

Dr. Spirit:

As opposed to being very clear about who you are, where you're trying to go and what your forever looks like, and then I tell people when you're dating, that's really supposed to be an interview process. It's about compatibility. It's about let me assess who you are and how you fit, and I love to describe relationships as kind of. You are the CEO of your life. You were looking for the COO, and so how would you handle a business partner? You would wanna know about the goodness of fit. You wouldn't simply say you like me and you're attracted to me. Now let me try to continue to be whatever it is that I think you want me to be, so that you will continue to choose me. So it's really important that we look at the type of relationships that we find ourselves in and the question around rejection. I'm curious what is the story that you tell yourself about you when you go into relationships wanting to be chosen and not have that experience of rejection again, how do you show up when you date?

Chanel Scott:

Gosh, I'm when I go into, so I don't date because, whenever I go into a situation, I'm always looking for when it's gonna go bad. Yeah, I'm always like it could be great and I'm always looking for that moment when it takes a turn. Why Cause that's been the pattern.

Dr. Spirit:

So if you go into a relationship expecting already for the shoe to drop, because in every other relationship the shoe has dropped, how do you show up as your whole, complete self? I?

Chanel Scott:

don't know and I haven't had the experience to really answer that question. To be honest, I haven't been in a relationship in over 10 years and, like the one person that I spent some time, it wasn't a relationship, it was so, it was more of a casual thing. And then it was. Did it feel safer? No, it wasn't safe at all. Exactly, it became something to do.

Dr. Spirit:

But you desire something different, Absolutely. Where do you think the disconnect is for you in between? I desire something different, but everything that I go into I'm waiting for the shoe to drop. I don't know.

Chanel Scott:

Cause I just my thing is, like I always where I see. The problem for me is that I'm always I'm worried about that whole chosen thing just takes over my whole mental Like. I fear, like is he dating someone else? Is there someone else? So then I run myself crazy with that Like, instead of just going through the motions not so much now, because I'm a little bit more clear minded about where I want to go. So I'll put up boundaries now, whereas before I would jump in because I didn't know my value and I would see so much value in that person. I would jump in here at first and then it would go. Now I just kind of put up boundaries, like if I do meet someone, I might spend time with you today, but you might not see me for the next month. Why? And that's just my way of protecting myself so that I don't.

Dr. Spirit:

So where did we learn that we have to protect ourselves from the person that we want to spend forever?

Chanel Scott:

with. I just don't want to be hurt?

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah, but how can you ever be loved if you go into a relationship protecting yourself from the person who is supposed to love you?

Chanel Scott:

Right. I don't know how to do that, because there's never not been a time where there wasn't another woman involved.

Dr. Spirit:

How far back does that go?

Chanel Scott:

Oh to teenager. There's never not been that. And my fear is like I could get to know this guy and not be concerned about what he's doing when he's not with me. But then my fear is, if I continue to get to know him, then ultimately he's not gonna choose me.

Dr. Spirit:

And I just can't let that happen. Have you ever asked yourself what is it about me that chooses not just attracts, but that chooses men who cannot be faithful?

Chanel Scott:

That's a good question, and that was the type of men that I attract all of my as long as I've been old enough. To date, I have attracted men who was not faithful.

Dr. Spirit:

Who were the men in your life and what were they like before you started dating?

Chanel Scott:

So my dad, amazing dad cheater. I mean, I'm a dad's girl, um, but he cheated. Did you know that he cheated? Yes.

Chanel Scott:

I knew he cheated early on because he had my, he got my mom's best friend pregnant and so and he raised me, I lived with him during my teenage years and so you know the, you know, you hear the chatter amongst the adults and everything. And I had a relationship with this lady, you know, because she, she, she loved me, she treated me well, and so it wasn't until I became an adult that I fully understood the dynamics of that relationship. And I'm like you, lucky, you so alive man. You know, but as a kid I mean I heard it but I didn't fully understand it.

Dr. Spirit:

So Josh talked about and you asked the question about hidden trauma. You grow up with this amazing man who is your father, who also cannot be faithful Absolutely. Would you say that most of the men that you meet and you give a shot at love?

Chanel Scott:

They're just like my dad.

Dr. Spirit:

There we go. Do you see how it works? We become imprinted right, Because in that feeling what happens is love and all the good stuff also gets attached to the wounds of the painful stuff. And because we're children, we have to learn how to stay in that and survive it and just navigate it the best way that we can. And when we leave those relationships, we find things that are familiar to us. Even if we don't know that we are doing it and even if we don't necessarily like it, we know how to navigate it. So you know how to navigate rejection. You know how to navigate protecting yourself. You know how to navigate not giving your whole heart away. What you don't know how to navigate is to be completely open and vulnerable and free, and there's probably some fear in doing that also.

Chanel Scott:

That's a scary place to be.

Josh Powell:

So so, dr, you given out some. That was some good dialogue between you and Chanel. But I have a question and we'll get to it when we get back. But basically, what I want to ask, to start this off, is is there a difference between a trigger or a behavioral pattern?

Dr. Spirit:

Better. I can't wait to answer.

Josh Powell:

See you all in a minute. Relationships matter. I need to understand relationships matter.

Chanel Scott:

Welcome back to relationships matter the podcast. So before we went to break, we we were talking about emotional triggers and Josh, you had a question for Dr Spirit. What was your question?

Josh Powell:

Yeah, I wanted to ask the difference, if there is one, between a trigger or a behavioral pattern and where that comes from. Okay, in my dating life I have dealt with women who constantly seem to point the finger and say I'm triggering them. So one, why would you still want to be with me? But that's another question. But for two, you can't blame everything, stating that there's some type of trigger, that I'm doing something when you are acting and behaving the way that you are, which has nothing to do with me as far as that situation goes. So that's why I wanted to ask the question if there is a difference.

Dr. Spirit:

Okay, so interesting that you're having the same situation in multiple relationships. So my question to you is do you date the same type of woman over and over and, if so, who are you dating?

Josh Powell:

I've had children by similar, but I've dated a wide range of women throughout my dating history.

Dr. Spirit:

Well, the interesting thing is that variety doesn't always mean different. We can date what looks different but behaviorally.

Josh Powell:

I'm speaking only on behavior.

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah, so the only common denominator in that situation? Yeah, so the choosing becomes interesting. But let me answer your question first. And then we got to go there because that's such a good example.

Dr. Spirit:

But to answer your question around emotional triggers versus behavioral patterns yes, they are different, and so I tell people that we have three parts of ourselves our feelings, our thoughts and our behaviors. Our feelings are our body's alarm systems to our needs. So your body gives you feelings to tell you what you need in order to be okay. So rejection, as we talked about, is a feeling. Disatisfaction is a feeling, so is love, so is fear, so is anger. Every emotion that you have is a feeling that is trying to tell you what you need or don't need in your environment and within you in order to be okay.

Dr. Spirit:

The thoughts are what you use, the strategies that you come up with in order to satisfy your feelings or to get your needs met. So if I feel rejection and I don't want to feel rejection, the opposite of that is acceptance. I want to feel acceptance. So what do I do? I start to think about what can I do to be accepted? Right, I can say things, I can dress a certain way, I can show up and behave a certain way, we start to think about all these different things that we can do. The doing is the behavior, and so when we have behavior patterns, those are things that we are doing over and over again in effort to try to get a need met.

Dr. Spirit:

So when these women tell you you're triggering me, the real question is what am I triggering? But you heard me say a little while ago that when we choose partners, we are either triggering things in order to heal them or in order to repeat cycles or patterns, and so the question becomes what needs are you trying to get met in the relationships that you're choosing, and what is it about the way that you guys go through these cycles that it's not healing what's being brought up? That's the real question, and so it would be interesting to learn about the kinds of women you choose and the experiences that you have and what is triggered in them, but also, what are they triggering in you? It's really, really, when we can crack these codes, the more that we can understand how we're showing up and how we're choosing every single experience that we're having. It then allows us to ask and answer the question.

Dr. Spirit:

If I'm not getting what it is that I want, then what are my choices serving? What need is this meeting? And sometimes here's the really interesting part of this Sometimes the very thing that we say that we want, we sabotage ourselves from actually having to get, because the fear and the vulnerability that gets created and going after it or being presented with it can often overwhelm us. So if we live the life where we've been rejected over and over but what we really want is really true love, but we look and say, well, what would it take for me to have that ultimate vulnerability, a willingness to show up, a willingness to not need to be chosen but to actually risk not being chosen, all of those things can be so scary that we'll avoid it like the plague.

Chanel Scott:

Wow, I think when I think about the triggers or the behavioral patterns, I know for me I'm a doer, I'm a giver and a lot of times in the past I've given to Garner someone's attention, and in this season I just don't want to do that.

Dr. Spirit:

To Garner their attention or to Garner being chosen? To Garner being chosen.

Chanel Scott:

And it's like, but it's just like, how do you distinguish between the two? Because I'm still by nature that I do that anyway if it's my family, my friends, but then how do you balance that or create boundaries around that where you're not being taken advantage of? You know, and for me I have to do a self-check to make sure that my motives are right when I'm doing what I'm doing. If I feel like there's something else behind it, then I have to stop, because I don't want a friendship, a relationship, from someone that I have to buy, and I've been guilty of that in the past.

Dr. Spirit:

Well, and I wonder also, what does it look like to be in relationships with people where you have to set a boundary so they won't take advantage of you? See, because I can tell you for me, at least at this point in the journey, because let me tell you, 20s and 30s, I was a hot mess Pre-work, oh gosh, I totally get what it means to be doing the work. But when you recognize I am in relationships with people where, if I don't set boundaries, they will take advantage of me, that in and of itself is an emotional trigger constantly that you may or may not be aware of. Because what does it feel like to be in relationship with people who would take advantage of you and for you to have to constantly be the person who says this is where I have to stop giving and that goes against my nature? Right, and this point in my life, I don't want to be with anybody in any form of relationship where I have to worry about being taken advantage of.

Dr. Spirit:

And so when we talk about healthy boundaries, I like to tell people that's the place where I can love you and me simultaneously. That's where the boundary is supposed to sit, where it's healthy. But if you recognize as a pattern that I have totally been in relationships with people around me in non-romantic ways that take advantage of me. You have to know what we do in one place we tend to do in others. So it is going to be natural that you will choose somebody who is likely to take advantage of you because it feels familiar. So until you have the awareness and until you can do the work in that to lay the right boundary, you will continue to invite other people into that space and then you'll be in a relationship where you're frustrated because you love them and you're giving but you're not getting in return and you don't feel safe. Right.

Josh Powell:

And that is extremely powerful and you're giving out so much. So, look, when we get back after this break, I want you to talk about how deep the trauma goes. I've been blessed enough to hear you give this information starting from the womb, so I want you to educate us when we get back. Okay, and talk about how deep the trauma goes. We'll talk about it later, when we get back. Relationships matter Podcasts.

Chanel Scott:

Welcome back to relationships matter, the podcast. So before we went to break, we were talking about emotional triggers and, josh, you had a question for Dr Spirit. What was your question?

Josh Powell:

I really feel like people either want to blame a situation or a circumstance, even though that doesn't discredit the impacts. But I've been very blessed to have many conversations with you, like my favorite IT Wait, I got enough great ideas. Talk to us about the one and please educate you know us myself again, but Chanel, but also our viewers on how deep trauma really runs.

Dr. Spirit:

Man, it's so deep. And so, yes, josh said we have had conversations around and what it's called is epigenetics, right. And so when we talk about relationships, we cannot talk about the relationship that we're having with ourselves without even thinking about the impact of what it meant to be in our mother's wounds, but even more deeply in our grandmother's wounds. And people will often say spirit, what do you mean in your grandmother's womb? And I say, well, do you know that you literally spent four to five months in your grandmother's womb and the quality of her pregnancy with your mother literally impacted you today? And so people say, well, how is that possible? And it's very simple, and it's literally.

Dr. Spirit:

Science is that every girl, every woman, is born with all the eggs that she will ever have to create life at the time that she enters this world, and so those eggs actually happen around month four or five in utero.

Dr. Spirit:

And so that means that you, your egg, was literally in your mother when she was four to five months in utero, in your maternal grandmother.

Dr. Spirit:

And so when we talk about everything that passes through the umbilical cord, unfortunately it's not just all the good stuff in the DNA, it's all of the stress.

Dr. Spirit:

And so when we think about the stressors that our elders and our ancestors have experienced, whether it's enslavement, whether it's forced migration, whether it's poverty, domestic violence, alcoholism, you name it, the list goes on and on.

Dr. Spirit:

But all of these things, all of the cortisol, all of the stress hormones, all of the anxiety, all of the biological components, or lack thereof, and the nutrients, all of that got passed down to us, and that determines genetic predisposition. And so when we talk about some of these things and we say well, I don't understand why I'm dealing with anxiety or depression or bipolar disorder or ADHD or any of these other genetically uh predisposed illnesses, we can't talk about your history without talking about your parents' history. And we also, as I love to say, we can't talk about how you love as an adult without talking about how you were loved as a child, because it all matters. And so, when we get into relationship, every single thing that we are doing in our life is a form of relationship, including the relationship that we are having, most importantly and first and foremost, with ourselves. It is literally that profound.

Josh Powell:

How important is that relationship with yourself?

Dr. Spirit:

The relationship that you're having with yourself.

Josh Powell:

I know that's like a broad that's a podcast in and of itself, but I want you to tap into that, however you feel, because that can bless somebody somewhere.

Dr. Spirit:

I think that every relationship begins and ends with the relationship that you're having with yourself, and I think it starts first and foremost with your physical and your mental wellness, because those are two things that no amount of money can buy. Money can help you get to the wellness sometimes, but it can't help you achieve or maintain it, and so I think, also understanding how those two things are inextricably linked. Most people don't recognize that so many of the physical symptoms that they are dealing with are impacted by or impacting the quality of their mental health and wellness. We don't understand that when we say I have an anxiety disorder, that that also comes with the physical symptoms, the racing thoughts, the insomnia, the tightness in your chest. But some of those things like back aches and neck aches and infertility issues, we don't recognize that those are tied to that. We don't recognize that when you're talking about depression, I'm dealing with depression. Yes, that's a mental health diagnosis, but that also has physical symptoms. It affects the way you eat or don't eat, the way you sleep or don't sleep, your motivation, your actual ability to move, physical fatigue and aches and pains in your body, strokes and heart attacks, and all of these things are all determined by quality of mental health and wellness, to the point that a lot of people don't even recognize that, say, for example, natural disasters or extremely stressful situations. We talk about shooting in gun violence nowadays, that in certain experiences, more people die as a result of the stress after from having heart attacks and strokes than they do in the actual natural disasters or the man made disasters that we're creating. It is literally all intertwined, and so when you think about how you are experiencing the world, first internally, how do you feel? How are you eating? How are you sleeping? How are you thinking? How clear are you? How do you feel about safety? How do you feel about future? How do you feel about security? How do you feel about support? All of those things are internal, individualistic things, and those determine how you deal with everything else in your life, including the people around you.

Dr. Spirit:

So oftentimes you can recognize when something is not right with a person, something is off, when they have something going on, and sometimes people will joke about it. They'll say things like oh girl, you need to get some. Oh, girl, you got some. Who is he? What's different? Oh, you need to put that boundary on your parents. Are you going to let them treat you like that? Are you just going to let this person walk all over you? Oh, you know that person doesn't like conflict. Oh, you know, they are just such a negative. Nancy, right, we can recognize things that people are experiencing. Sometimes we can even recognize what we're experiencing, but we don't make the connection that that is related to the quality of our mental health and wellness and the relationship that we are having internally.

Chanel Scott:

How do you reconcile the emotional trigger, whether it be friendship, family, and maintain a healthy relationship at the same time? Cause people are so quick to say I don't want to be around that person anymore, I don't want to be your friend, or I'm going to, you know, create some boundaries, or I'm going to protect my peace, or you know, I do that to my mom. I'm so guilty of that, you know I'll call you later. So how do you do that? How do you, you know, correct that and still maintain the relationship?

Dr. Spirit:

Well, you know what's really interesting about that? It's really early in my career, when I was kind of textbook, where you just learn a certain way and I think um, to large degree, a very Eurocentric way of doing things. Um, just, culturally speaking, the Eurocentric way tends to be a very individualistic model, as opposed to global majorities, where it's more collective and we are raised as a village. We are raised to be very oftentimes enmeshed or really about family throughout generations and there are rules for how we function. That's very different. Um, and in training, especially within mental health, we talk about things like cultural competency or even now, cultural humility, which is understanding and layering in what it looks like to be a part of global majority culture as opposed to, uh, mainstream Western culture. Um, and our training has been very interesting because I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but clinicians of color very few and far in between.

Dr. Spirit:

As a black woman, I make up 4% of all licensed professionals across the country, and black men we outnumbered them six to one in this field, and so, without that representation, we also don't recognize what it means to be a part of a black family, black relationships that look different, and so I think one of the things that was very interesting is when I very first started doing the work. How I learned it was you do whatever you have to do to protect your peace. If that person treated you wrong, you just leave them alone. And then, once I started to do my own work and once I got a little more comfortable in the work, and I recognize you ain't leaving your mama, you still want to be in relationship with your sister Absolutely Right, and I started to see that differently. And so what I can say is, as a clinician, for where I am at this point in the journey, how I see the people that sit in front of me. I see them as the chain breakers.

Dr. Spirit:

You are the person that is getting a different type of healing in your family that, if you do it right, is going to change the the trajectory for generations to come. But that can be a very lonely place to sit in, because you are still part of the family and all of the dysfunction and the pain and the wounds that you've come from. And so you have to do a form of code switching, if you will, because you have to learn how to navigate both worlds the healthy one, that looks very different and the toxic one that you've come from and just cause you getting healed, don't mean that everybody else around you want to get healed. Oftentimes they will reject what's happening because you're changing and they don't like it, and that kind of reflects sometimes and puts pressure on you in a different way. They'll go oh, you think you better than us now. Oh, look at you. Oh, you know so. Oh, you gone, you gone. I'll serve boundaries on me. You better put those boundaries right over there when you come into my house. You're going to do it my way.

Dr. Spirit:

And so there are all of these things that go along with healing that can be very painful, and so one of the things that I prepare my clients for is the loneliness that comes with being healed, because what you will start to find is your relationships will change.

Dr. Spirit:

You will have less interactions with some of the people that you love the most, but what you can you can count on is that they will be higher quality interactions, because what you will do is take care of yourself and those relationships in ways that you hadn't before.

Dr. Spirit:

So even when you say now I will have to put the brakes on my mama, I love her, but I recognize where I have to draw the line. You're taking care of you and you are giving yourself what you need, and so, ultimately, that is the most important relationship that you have, and you are obligated and responsible for taking care of yourself. You know so. I sometimes talk about it to my clients. It's like you are the captain, but your soul is the co-pilot. You are the security guard, you are the gatekeeper, you are the navigator, and if you will not take care of your soul, if your soul cannot count on you to take care of it, you will never be in true relationship with yourself, because you will constantly be on autopilot, just trying to survive. All of the things that you're not willing to deal with, that are requiring you to take care of you in order to be okay.

Josh Powell:

So, my goodness, I had my question because you know we're about to go to break.

Josh Powell:

Oh, okay, we're about to break but I'm not going to lose this point, because you talked about healed people and how it's a lonely journey to it to it to a healed people, right, but the journey like, as far as you know, moving forward, we would like to think that it's going to bring on all of these different things, but it's actually a lot different experience. So I do want to touch on that when we get back from the break. But I also want to ask you a personal question, because when people see you right, they see who you are now, but if you could tap into something that triggered you or a trauma and how you overcame that, that would be helpful for somebody. When we get back, relationships matter podcast.

Chanel Scott:

Welcome back to relationships matter, the podcast. So before we went to break Dr Spirit, we were asking you about a personal experience that caused maybe you to be triggered.

Dr. Spirit:

Would you like to?

Chanel Scott:

share with us.

Dr. Spirit:

I would, and I love that you asked that. It's great, because most people don't even bother to ask. They forget that we're people too, and I love to constantly remind people. I'm like mm. Do not put me up on a pedestal, cause I will jump head first and embarrass myself and just lay right there. I think it's important, though, because I think sometimes people need to see healing modeled for them. I think that's a good way to say that that healing in and of itself is a lifelong journey. We're going to constantly be wounded and rewounded over and over again, but it's about making space in your body and in your life for you to be able to deal with those things in ways that don't overwhelm you, and so I love to tell folks do not let these letters after my name fool you. Okay, we all have enough life in order to have to manage traumas and triggers, and one of the things that I am very big on and if you guys ever have the opportunity or any of your listeners ever have the opportunity to come to my office, they will see this I love to talk about my own life, and very early in my twenties I'm a divorced woman.

Dr. Spirit:

I've been with my new partner. Now I love to say new, like it's all new and fresh cause for us. It still is, but we've been together almost 20 years. But I was married before this and went through a really painful divorce, and it was one of those situations where I never, never, ever thought that I would be a divorced woman. I never thought that I would be a single mother or have to deal with any of those things, and trying to save that relationship really pushed me into a really deep depression, really filled me with tons of anxiety and, having not done my work, I didn't recognize, coming into adulthood, all of the trauma that I was carrying.

Dr. Spirit:

And so, at my lowest point, I literally went to mental health professionals. I thought I was having heart attacks over and over, checking myself into emergency rooms and the doctors will go no, your, your EEG is clear, everything seems normal. Have you thought about seeing a therapist? And I was like I am telling you that the problem is in my body, you're trying to tell me that the problem is in my head. So you think that I'm crazy. And it was kind of like oh, I don't understand this connection. But as I started to do my work and once I really started to get deeper into my own education around psychology and mental health. I started to make the connections.

Josh Powell:

And so you are in this field.

Dr. Spirit:

yet I wasn't in the field yet. This is my early 20s, so at this point I'm in psychology as an undergrad. Don't understand the way that this works at all. And it was a very interesting defining moment for me when I was sitting in an emergency room and the doctor said you really should see a therapist. But what I will do today is I'm going to write you two prescriptions, one for Paxil and one for Xanax. And I was like Whoa, wait a minute, you trying to medicate me. And he said well, you don't need to suffer unnecessarily, so take the medication, do the work and you'll be okay.

Dr. Spirit:

And at that point I sat there and I looked at those medications and for me that was a huge, huge defining moment in my life because I said now I know what is causing me to have this depression and this anxiety and I can take this medication. And if I do, it's going to do one of two things Either it's going to help me do what I need to do or it's going to silence all of the alarm bells that are telling me that I need to change my situation. And so I chose not to fill that prescription, not because I was against medication for anybody. I absolutely believe that when you are suffering, you need to do what you need to do to take care of yourself. But I did not want to continue in the situations that I was in when my body was doing what it was supposed to do, which was to tell me I needed to make some changes.

Dr. Spirit:

And so I held on to those prescriptions and I did what I needed to do to change my life. I did the work, but I have always maintained and held on to those prescriptions. So if ever you come into my office, you will see both of those prescriptions in a frame sitting on my desk. One is a reminder to myself about where I never, ever want to go back to, but also as something to show one to my clients that I am human and I have walked those places and that is why I'm able to take you there and also bring you to somewhere else but to show them what is possible. What is possible if you're willing to do the work, because when you are able to do the work and heal yourself and understand the connections to yourself in a way that allows you to change the relationships that you're having in your life, you can live your best life.

Josh Powell:

So in doing the work, because there are going to be some people and I want to cut out all excuses, right, I'm saying that respectfully, but in my opinion, there's still a way that you can get the help right Talking about from a therapist. But for those people that may not can afford it, or maybe they just don't have the time or maybe they've had a bad experience that won't bring them back, what are some other things that you can do to do the work?

Dr. Spirit:

Okay, well, I love it because I say that many things are therapeutic. Only therapy is therapy. But therapy is also therapeutic and so are other things. But let me say this to those points One I tell folks don't ever let money be the reason that you're not getting the help, because there are folks out there, even people like me, who will see you gratis, pro bono, absolutely free Okay, I think it's important to understand that or pro sliding fee scale services, or insurance, community based services there are ways to get the help. So do not let money be the thing.

Dr. Spirit:

The other part of that is if you have had a bad experience, do not let one person be representative of that. Do not condemn an entire community and stop yourself from getting what you need. You wouldn't just have one boyfriend. You wouldn't have just one job or one car or one anything else. So keep going, keep going and make sure you talk to that next therapist about the bad situations that you had and don't tell yourself that you don't have time, because if you don't take care of your wellness, your body will sit you down and require it. So either you make the time or your body will make the time for it, especially in the stage of telehealth. You can do it in your closet, in your car, anywhere in the world. So absolutely.

Dr. Spirit:

But to the other part of that understanding, as I said, that everything can be therapeutic, understanding that healing comes in many forms and it needs to be constant. So, whether it is most importantly learning how to breathe, so many of us do not know how to breathe and people think that that's so simple and doesn't make any sense at all. But breathing literally tells your body that everything is okay and because most of us don't know how to breathe and breathe well, our bodies stay in a constant state of activation, so we're constantly triggered and we don't even realize that we are. So learning, getting into some good breathwork, meditation, yoga, learning, box, breathing little, simple steps that you could do at home, even sitting where we are right now. People could do that.

Dr. Spirit:

Reading, resting resting is a biological imperative and unfortunately, we have been taught to be productive and go all the time or we're carrying so much trauma that we don't want to stop, because if we had to stop and sit with ourselves, the things that come up in our minds and in our bodies we cannot deal with. But rest is a biological imperative and if you are not resting, your body can never go into recovery or to rehabilitate and take care of itself. So rest is important.

Chanel Scott:

That's a good point, I know for me. I work for myself, but in the middle of the day, if I even, I just like, I feel like I have to keep going because I never want to go back to that place where I didn't have what I needed. So I keep pushing and keep pushing and I'll go and go until I can't halfway see.

Dr. Spirit:

Yes, like, literally, literally.

Chanel Scott:

Yeah, and it's because it's like it's that thought of you want, don't want to go back.

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah, you don't want to go back to how things used to be, so you got to keep going, and it's those thoughts that require the healing because you will never be able to be at rest, even when you're trying to rest. Those thoughts will then start to tell you you should be working, you're missing out, there's things to do, somebody else is getting it and it will. The fear, and then also the negative hormones that will poison your body over time. With those thoughts, it becomes imperative. Exercise is another great one.

Dr. Spirit:

We do not understand the hormones that get released into our body, the healthy ones that get released into our bodies all of the time through exercise and, believe it or not, one of the things that we will not do, especially in communities that are part of the global majority.

Dr. Spirit:

We will not cry. We will not cry, and crying is the body's natural defense to infection. It is the gateway to wellness, because when we cry, it literally constricts and releases muscles. It literally pushes toxins out of our body. It literally fatigues us so that we can rest and take deep breaths. It gives us all of these cleansing, beneficial things that we don't do enough of. And diet I cannot stress diet enough our brain and gut connection, those probiotics, those prebiotics putting good, healthy, live food into our bodies, and not doing that is killing our mental health and our physical health. Laughing joy, anything that brings the body relief is therapeutic, and so many of us need to self medicate, whether it's we're smoking things, we're taking things, we're drinking things, we're spending things, we're gambling things. We're doing all of these things to make ourselves feel better, not recognizing that it's temporary relief, because our body is crying out to us, trying to indicate that we need help, we need healing.

Josh Powell:

So I want to, because you know we're coming to a close and I want to ask you this and I'll kick it over to Chanel, which is something a little different Giving you the mic right and you have it, but take 30 to 60 seconds, whatever you feel is on your heart. If you could talk to a viewer, a listener, mind you, you've given people a lot of gain, and I know you've done a lot of things and a lot of work, but if you can dig deep into your bag and figure out a message that you want to send to men, women, children, whoever that will watch this show, what is something powerful that you would like to say? That maybe is something that you haven't been able to express before.

Dr. Spirit:

Yeah, great questions, josh, really do. I'm going to try not to cry because, as you were saying that, what I was thinking is you know so many people are hurting, so many people are hurting and the hard part in, not just the work I do, but just who I am intuitively as a person, I can see it all the time and so it's heavy all the time. I would say to anybody out there who would resonates with and I know you're listening and you know that I'm talking to you I would say you can hide from everybody else, but you can't hide from yourself. You know what you're going through, you know what you're feeling, you know what keeps you up at night. You know all the thoughts that you have. You know the pain, the sadness, the anxiety, the worry, the exhaustion.

Dr. Spirit:

And I want you to know that you don't have to do it alone. Everything that you're carrying you can let go, and you can even forgive yourself for the bad choices that you made when you didn't have any other choice but a bunch of bad options to choose from. And no matter what you have thought about yourself before this moment, I want you to know that you are worthy. You are worthy of relief. You are worthy of every good thing that you have dreamed of and prayed for and watched everybody else have. But you weren't sure if it was for you. You just have to be willing to do the work of letting go of all the pain that you have survived. And those are not disqualifiers, those are qualifications. God does not call the qualified, he qualifies the called. And you are worthy. Let that be your testimony to step into the life that you are supposed to be living and do the work to heal yourself and to meet yourself and to understand what it's all been for, so that you can finish your assignment. You're worthy.

Josh Powell:

Because I've had a chance to watch you from afar and working with you has been a pleasure, but that was from another place. You know, I don't know what the place was, but I know that was from another place and I'm hoping that there's an opportunity later on down the line that we can bring you back, because your spirit, first and foremost, the fact that you genuinely do this work. I've come across a lot of therapists you know what I mean and I come across a lot of people that's in this space and I want to salute you. You know what I mean. I also want to tell you that I love you and somebody like yourself doesn't get the recognition because you know, like you mentioned, you know you're healed, you're good, you're the one helping me, but not realizing that you are still human.

Josh Powell:

You cry, you hurt, you get upset, you go through things just like anybody else and a lot of times you know you check on people, but you're the one that's not checked on. So I wanted to take this moment. I tell you privately, but I wanted to publicly acknowledge you as a really beautiful person and you know, I know the impacts you've had on my life. I've seen the impact that you've had on Chanel just within this hour, but just everywhere you go, and that speaks as a testimony to what you're doing, how you're doing it, and that you're causing healing in every room that you touch. I'm just glad I got to know the person.

Josh Powell:

I love it, I love it. That has nothing to do with the profession and I do think the world to you and I really thank you for taking the time to bless this microphone, this room, with your presence. I had to say it on live because you know that puts the pressure on, if we can say, you know it gets you back. But seriously though, thank you and I'm going to let you know Chanel close out, but I wanted to personally take that time to tell you for sure the ancestors came out on that one for sure.

Josh Powell:

That was something different because I you know that had me all feeling. You know I had to look down. I was like goodness because that was so strong. You know what I mean For all of us and I know that's going to help somebody.

Chanel Scott:

I hope so. No, I mean, you've said it. I couldn't say it any better than Josh. We really appreciate you coming. My pleasure. I'm going to get to the show and I definitely am going to get some sessions outside of the show.

Dr. Spirit:

Oh, we need it, we all need it.

Chanel Scott:

This has to say yeah absolutely, we definitely need it, definitely Something that I would like to see as a reoccurring thing, because I typically do not cry because it's like nobody don't care anyway. I've kind of been groaned to kind of operate like that, like put your emotions to the side and do what you need to do. So it was just encouraging just to be able to hear you share those words.

Dr. Spirit:

So thank, you my pleasure and know that that's been a function of our conditioning. We have been taught, especially on this continent, that we don't have time for tears, and tears will make you vulnerable and you got to be tough. You got to be tougher than this world because it will take you out and we are all working on surviving, absolutely, yep.

Josh Powell:

That's a wrap. Good people, relationships matter. Podcasts we are out. Yes, relationships matter. I need to understand. Relationships matter. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.