Relationships Matter Live

Lionell "TJ" Tillman: Child Support is Fraud

• Chanel Scott and Josh Powell • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode of Relationships Matter we dive into Lionell "TJ" Tillman's grueling account of a multi-year legal battle with the child support system, and how he fought a false paternity accusation. His compelling narrative paints an alarming picture of the current child support system and how it can imprison the innocent. We also dissect the Supreme Court case Blessing versus Freestone, discuss the controversial concept of child support being voluntary, and reveal how to self-represent in court.

We don't stop there as our conversation takes a progressive turn, exploring alternative parenting options and the importance of non-financial forms of support. TJ imparts a compelling argument on the significance of fathers' involvement in children's lives, the concept of co-parenting bird nesting and the need for a reformed child support system. We wrap up with an emphasis on the profound importance of strong relationships in parenthood, underscoring the necessity of a loving environment for children. You don't want to miss this thought-provoking episode.

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Opposing experiences, a single woman and a married man, Chanel Scott, and Josh Powell, create a powerful and empathetic team, offering valuable insights and advice on navigating the complexities of romantic relationships and promoting healthier, more fulfilling connections.

Join Chanel and Josh as they unlock the secrets of successful relationships one conversation at a time.


Speaker 1:

I'm Chanel Scott, the queen of relationship talk.

Speaker 2:

I'm Josh Powell, two-time NBA champion.

Speaker 1:

I've journeyed from trauma to healing.

Speaker 2:

From the NBA to family, I've learned what really matters.

Speaker 1:

We've come together to unlock the secrets of successful relationships.

Speaker 2:

One conversation at a time.

Speaker 1:

One conversation at a time. Welcome to Relationships Matter, the podcast. My name is Chanel Scott and I am Josh Powell. Guys, we have a special guest today, mr Lano TJ Tillman. Child support is fraud. That's what you know him best for. But we're going to talk a little bit about relationships and we're going to transition into this whole idea that child support is fraud.

Speaker 2:

Let's get to it, my dog. Well, first and foremost, you were the first guest to come on here, my boy too, clay. So I got to get a love man, because this is like we talking about the brand. My brother is crushing it and I love it, man. You look very dapper, brother, and I just got to salute you, man.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I didn't come into playing no game, I know it. But at the same time, like this is when I went in to represent myself every hearing I was suited in Buddha head to let them know I'm here for business and I didn't come into playing no game.

Speaker 2:

See everybody that see you man is obviously they want to get to the business first, but let's talk about the man first, because that's the most important. Let's talk like, because everybody, I already know they only want to know the business, right, right right right. Let's talk about TJ. You know what I mean. Tell us a little bit about your story first.

Speaker 3:

I'm TJ, just, first of all. I mean my name is Lionel Tillman, tj Tillman, I'm a junior, so my family has called me TJ since I remember words. So that's where the TJ comes from. I grew up in Compton, california, went to school, graduated from Compton High School, community college, and always had an entrepreneurial spirit. I always wanted to work for myself. But for me, as an individual, I'm an adult, great father, great husband, or at least I like to think that.

Speaker 2:

Say that I'm a white character.

Speaker 3:

But yeah, I'm an overall. I'm just a genuine person, I'm a genuine spirit and I just like to excel.

Speaker 2:

How did you grow up? Because I heard you say Compton. So I don't want to assume, but at the same time I think it is to be assumed.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean for me, growing up in Compton, I was involved with the gangs as a young age and unfortunately I say this but I don't take pride in it but I was literally shot at five times before I was 18 years old. As a child just living on the street that I had no chance. I had no choice but to live here because this is where my mother and my grandmother reside, being on the street that you shoot in marbles, you're riding bikes, you're playing with your friends. I was shot at five times before I was an adult. So, just coming up in that environment, we had great times, but for me, that's not something that I would ever want my boys to have to experience and I just feel like the path that I'm on, that's my mission to make sure that they never have to endure the things that I had to grow up, Because that's not normal for a child, Right.

Speaker 2:

Right. I ask that because it's setting the tone, for I know you spoke about your wife being married. So, growing up in an environment like that, how do you choose the proper partner? Because I'm sure you got some trust issues, probably a little leery, maybe I'm just assuming because of how you grew up, the things that you saw. So talk about how that went into you choosing.

Speaker 3:

My wife. I met her she was 17. I was 18. We met at a Compton, had this. Like I said, there was gang, so they didn't like to put the city together a lot, but at one point we had this mayor. They put together these Compton transit parties. So every Saturday everybody came in. There was the fights. But that's where I met my wife at. I was 18. She was 17. One of my friends, lil Mark, he said, hey, man, I got somebody for you. And he walking me over and when I seen her I was like that's her. He's like yeah, I'm like yo.

Speaker 2:

My god.

Speaker 3:

He's like yeah, I talked to her cousin, but that's how I met. For us, it was the politics of the streets. My family and her family, two different sides of the city, don't mesh at all, so for us to even be together one of my friends said this at the wedding he actually on the mic it's just to look around the room and see the individuals that are in this room for love, this is. You can't tell me that God isn't real. And so she's a beautiful woman. She takes great care of me and our children. We've been married since what? 2016? So what? Yeah, We've been together off and on, the traditional man doing man things, and she left me several times.

Speaker 3:

But she made her way back and she left me several times as a young boy, just being a young boy, going out there doing what you want to do and, of course, as she say, what was done in the dark, it comes to the light. It always comes back around. We're in a small city, so you're talking to a whole other girl, Her cousin and his friends. They get to talking and it's like ah, so she left me several times because of me just talking to other females, Just talking, Just talking.

Speaker 3:

But, there was intimacy at some, but I'm just saying there was a few of them, with just the fact of you talking to another woman and y'all dating. Oh, I got to let you go.

Speaker 2:

What do you think brings y'all back together, though? Because I know some people, when they hear these types of stories, like man, I would have been like I'm straight, but there's something, obviously, that kept y'all connected. So what do you think that was?

Speaker 3:

Honestly, I believe it was God. She's my person From how we met. They didn't have. They only had three of them. If I'm not mistaken, it only lasted three weeks, because the street things that goes on in the city where it was fights, and then later on, towards once they had a shooting, it was over. So it only happened three weeks. So within that three weeks, here it is. I met the person that I'm going to be in a relationship with for the rest of our lives.

Speaker 1:

What about her? Made her your person, though.

Speaker 3:

It wasn't the, she was my piece. All the other women that I dealt with, it was like when I get with them it was just I liked them for different things, but whether they smoked cigarettes or it was just you liked the woman for smoking cigarettes.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no no.

Speaker 3:

So I'm saying it was something about the other woman that turned me off. Okay, yes, With her she was just reserved she was different. She was my piece. When I was with her, it was a calm. It was like this is my refuge, so to speak. She was never the flashy in the streets, she was a real reserved woman.

Speaker 1:

Is this your first and only wife?

Speaker 3:

My first and only yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because I want to tie into the child support as fraud, because you're still married? Yes, you had to pay child support before.

Speaker 3:

Before. Yes, I did With this wife, no.

Speaker 1:

Okay, with someone else.

Speaker 3:

Yes, okay.

Speaker 1:

Because you said y'all married at 17, 18?.

Speaker 3:

Well, no, I met her, I met her. I met her, I was 18. She was 17.

Speaker 1:

She was married later on in life.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so we married later on in life. The child support aspect, that's a whole different story.

Speaker 2:

Go ahead you can see that you can y'all okay?

Speaker 1:

so I want to get the timeline together so we can work our way into this.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

So you met your now wife when you was 18 and she was 17. And y'all dated when you was 18 and she was 17. But you have dated and had children with someone in between time before you married.

Speaker 3:

Yes, okay, yes, all right. So I met her when I was 18. We didn't actually start dating. I want to say she was maybe 23 and I was 24, because at the time I had a girlfriend, she had a boyfriend. So we met. But we're kids, we're talking. There was no cell phones at that time. This is 1996. Okay, so it's different. So we got to talk on the house phone. So during that time period the child that I was on child support for was conceived when I was 12 years old.

Speaker 1:

Wait a minute, right, and how old was the mother?

Speaker 3:

She was 15.

Speaker 1:

You was 12. Oh, so this happened before you met. Yes, you're now white.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yeah, okay, so keep going so met her. This happened when I was 12 years old. Okay, Time goes on. Long story short. I found out about my child support case seven years after it opened. No-transcript. Seven years after the child support case started, I found out about it Because you was a kid.

Speaker 3:

I was a kid and once I became an adult, like I said, I was involved in the streets, so I was hustling, so I didn't have a job. Once I actually started to change my life around, I got a job. Six months in, hr gave me a call and said it's payday. I said hey, mr Tillman, we need to speak to you. I come in. They said well, we got an income withholding order. What is that? She said well, it's a garnishment. They're going to start taking your garnishing, your checks, effective immediately. Who's going to start taking my money? She said child support. Child support, what do you mean child support? She said yeah, effective immediately. Here's the paper. So I called them. Child support says well, you had six months to respond. It's been seven years and so there's nothing that can be done.

Speaker 1:

Did you know you had this child?

Speaker 3:

I knew the child was born. Okay, yes, I've always maintained that it wasn't my child because at this time, like I said, I was 12 years old. Now here's the whole I never penetrated the woman. I see your eyes, it's going.

Speaker 1:

It's like wait what do you mean? This is one of those stories where you say, oh, he only put the tip.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, like we, we we try. I mean, I was 12. So I didn't know what I was doing. I never penetrated the woman. What I learned in eighth grade we had a sixth education class, to where, you know, a person can become pregnant from pre-comp. Yeah, so at this time we're, you know, we're trying to figure it out. The girl she goes in my A. There's nothing. This is before I even find out about child support. I'm still a child. So now I'm 13 years old, what can I do? I can't contact you. I don't have a phone to contact you. I don't know where the girl is. She was my cousin's friend. She disappeared. That's the last we heard of it. Yeah, until HR says hey, mrs Tillman, you got child support. And this is, like I said, the case was going on for seven years at this point.

Speaker 1:

So then, what happened?

Speaker 3:

So at that point I contact child support. I go to them and they tell me there's nothing that can be done. You need to go seek legal representation. I go to the court. The court tells me yeah, according to family code, you had six months to respond.

Speaker 1:

Your response is untimely, that's that Not taken into consideration that you were a child.

Speaker 3:

They didn't take any of that into consideration, and you didn't it wasn't.

Speaker 1:

I just want to clarify. There was no relationship between you and this 15 year old girl. It was just a situation where it was one time.

Speaker 3:

I met her that day.

Speaker 2:

Boy putting it that.

Speaker 3:

I mean, she was my cousin's friend.

Speaker 3:

So it's ironic, like yesterday, my grandmother. Well, today is my grandmother's birthday. She passed away three years ago and her sister her birthday was yesterday, which is my great Aunt Mabel. At Mabel's house Everything goes, it's just. It was just one of those houses my mother said when they was kids that was the house where all the kids went to and all the friends come. People spend a night and they end up living there. It was, that was just the atmosphere at Aunt Mabel's house. And here I am, I'm spending the night and you know my cousin's friend, she's there and we tried and then that was the last, you know, I heard of it until, yeah, years later.

Speaker 3:

So at that point this went on for another 13 years that nothing can be done. So there's 12, so just to give it a timeline, there's I find out about the case seven years after it happened, so it's already seven years. I talked to the court. The court says, according to family code, there's nothing that can be done. That goes on for another 13 years. So now we have 20 years, but in between those 20, in between those 13 years, now they're going to send my checks. They put a lien on my name because I'm in arrears because I found out about the case seven years after it opened. So when I found out about it, I'm already in arrears. $24,000 in a hole because they provided the woman cash aid, food stamps, medi-cal. So they're coming after me for all of the money that they provided.

Speaker 1:

Did you ever meet the child?

Speaker 3:

I did after he was an adult.

Speaker 1:

Because he's only 12 years younger than you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I met. I ended up meeting him. My sister actually found him through Facebook, through the process of me now taking child support to court to defend myself, and when I spoke to him he was like you know. Initially he was like well, you know, my mother told me that when I was a kid that you were my father, but later on in life she told me who my real father is and this is who I know my father to be Like. That's my father.

Speaker 1:

And not to mention getting signed a birth certificate.

Speaker 3:

I never signed a birth certificate, but she put my name on a birth certificate, so that's how they came after me. And there's a when she get into the child support of it. If you don't contest it, they presume that you agree and they have something called prima facie. So everyone has heard innocent until proven guilty. Right, that's in a judicial matter. But child support is an administrative process, so that goes back into the separation of powers. There's judicial branch, executive and legislative. So when in child support they have prima facie, that means that they take everything that is filed to be true and correct until you provide evidence to show that it's not so. If you don't contest it, they're not doing any checks, no balances, that's just what it is. You have to actually contest it in order to provide evidence to show that what was filed was not done correctly.

Speaker 3:

So during those 13 years they're taking my money, but they're taking my license and every I'm paying them an additional $50 a month so I can keep my license. But every year my license got suspended for a system error every year. So every year I now have to pay them an additional $50 to release my license, on top of the 50 that I'm paying them to keep it on top of me having to pay the DMV $75 to reinstate my license every time. Now, here we go in this 13 years and I'm just frustrated and I'm like, why do we have to keep going through this? Like, why do y'all keep telling me it's a system error? And I'm, like man, I don't even know why I'm going through this anyway because, like man, this is fraud. Like I didn't even have sex with the girl and the lady said fraud. What do you mean? It's fraud. You got served.

Speaker 3:

I said wait, I got served. She said yes, I said I got served. She said yes. I said well, tell me, what day did I get served? Because I've been with me every day of my life, I know I didn't get served. And she said okay, well, hold on, I'll tell you exactly what day she placed me on hold.

Speaker 3:

She come back. She says I'm sorry, mr Tillman, we don't have your signature. I said I know you don't because I know I didn't get served. She said well, that don't matter anyway, you volunteered into the program. I did what? When did I volunteer? She said well, yeah, you volunteered into the program.

Speaker 3:

I said, okay, well, tell me what day I volunteered. She placed me on hold. She come back. I'm sorry, mr Tillman, we do not have your signature. So from this point, she told me that I had been served. She told me that they had my signature, which she just told me that they don't. So now I'm asking to speak to the supervisor and things of that nature. They get me to the unbuzz department, which is like the eternal affairs for child support. Ultimately, they didn't do anything and I end up taking them to court once I start doing more research, because at that point I said, okay, well, what else am I supposed to do? What else are they supposed to do? And that's when I started doing my research and studying their policy to see what was their policy on how they were to establish these cases, and I took them to court and I represented myself from two years from that point, Wow, did you ever see the mother of the child again?

Speaker 3:

No, now she is a mother of 29 children. See her, they knew it. I protected them FOREVER. No, no, she never showed up to court.

Speaker 1:

They had but she was collecting money.

Speaker 3:

She was collecting money, but she never showed up to court. They contacted her many times and told her to come to court. We had maybe, like I want to say it was like 14 hearings within a two year period. She never showed up to one, and I actually, so I provided Once. Her son sent me a text message saying that you know what she told him. She contacted child support and said I'm not showing up, I don't want to, I'm not coming at all. Y'all can do whatever y'all want to do, I'm not coming.

Speaker 2:

I noticed you said her son so.

Speaker 1:

To this day. You don't.

Speaker 3:

Well, because now here's the thing I said her son. Because in this hearing, I told you that the child was conceived when I was 12 years old. What we later proved in court was I hadn't even reached puberty yet, I wasn't producing semen. I could not have birthed a child.

Speaker 1:

Did you do a DNA test?

Speaker 3:

There was no DNA testing. She declined. He declined the son. He said I know who my father is. I don't want.

Speaker 2:

Because he established a relationship with. He's already established a relationship with With someone else who.

Speaker 3:

his mother told him this is who your father is. So he declined it twice. He said no, I don't want to. I'll give you this and tell you what she told me and this is who my father is. But neither one of them wanted to come to the actual hearing.

Speaker 2:

My mind is all over the place. You know some things. You know what I mean I've heard, but then it's like other pieces you know to the story Throughout this process, though, like how does your wife support you in the midst of?

Speaker 3:

you know what I mean like all that is going on, so now I got to take the glasses off.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because now we're, because now we're taking money out of the household and really just giving it to strangers.

Speaker 3:

Honestly, Honestly, yeah, I mean, she's always maintained like you need to take care of that, like, first of all, before we even knew that I wasn't even eligible to produce semen at the time. She's like you need to figure out if this is your child. So you know, I'm trying to find them to figure it out, because she's like, if he has your last name and this is your child, we need to figure this out. But once I start going through the hearing process, she initially and here's the thing she actually works for the courts. So imagine me telling her child support is fraud. This is what they're supposed to do, this is so.

Speaker 3:

It didn't go well initially because she's like well, no, we do everything by the book, this is what it's supposed to be. The state statute says that's a state statute that has nothing to do with the federal law. States statutes benefit who the state? So it didn't go well initially. But as I start going through the process, she was supportive. And once I was just coming, here's the evidence this is what they were supposed to do, this is what they did. And now she's looking at it Wait, no, that ain't right because, no, that's not how it's supposed to go, what they're supposed to do. All I'm going to do is show you the evidence on what it is that they're supposed to do. This is their own policy and they're not following their own policy, and this is what it tells them has to happen. So she was supportive towards the middle part, going towards the end. What was she upset about initially?

Speaker 2:

The fact that you had a kid, or Nah, it was the fact.

Speaker 3:

What she got upset was when we was getting married. We were planning on a honeymoon out the country. Got you, yes, you got you. We done spent $3,800 to go to Punta Cana. So now I applied for my passport and they like yeah.

Speaker 3:

I'm thinking the passport is going to come Password. Come on, shhh, rip it open, open it. Child support I can't even get a passport, but now I have to tell her I can't go to Punta Cana. You can go, but I can't go. So now she's like yo, you need to fix this, you need to fix it.

Speaker 1:

So let me ask you a question so I can see how child support is fraud in what you experience, because that was crazy. You were being held accountable for something you had no knowledge of. How does that tie into a situation where someone did penetrate, they had sex, that's their child and they have to pay child support? Is that the same?

Speaker 3:

Yes, the reason how that is because, first and foremost, there's a United States code. It's 28USC1691. That's the first thing that I look at. That says that all written processes issuing from a court in the United States shall be under the syllabic court and signed by the clerk thereof. What that means is it has to have the syllabic court and it must be signed by the county clerk, not the deputy clerk, inside of the court building. So if those documents do not have that, they're actually void and they notice. But the fact that they have prima facie and you don't challenge it, the court's taking it as true and correct. So that's one.

Speaker 3:

Then there's two to where, like I said, this is not a judicial matter, it's administrative hearing. They have to give you, you have to give them consent to have your case heard by an administrative officer which is an attorney. They're not a judge. They can't issue a money judgment, but they have hearing officers issuing money judgments in a, because a money judgment is a judicial process. They can't cross people that's in the executive branch can't partake in a judicial side. Same thing. So that aspect when I say child support is fraud, I mean they're violating their own policies. So it doesn't matter whether you had sex with the mother. It's your kid to answer your question. They're not following their own policies and their own policy states that is void.

Speaker 3:

And if you're enforcing a void judgment when you have policies in place, so these things don't happen, there's intent. Intent is the root element of fraud, so there has to be an intent and this would. If people always ask me, what if they did everything correctly? What if it's under the seal? What if it's signed by the clerk? What if it's signed by an actual judge? How is this still fraud? The answer is simple.

Speaker 3:

The answer is very simple because they are incentivized. They are receiving half a billion of dollars annually to put people on child support based on their performance. They're getting bonuses the courts, the state and the actual judges. It goes into their retirement fund. So that brings us to the 14th Amendment, which is due process. No person shall be deprived of their life, liberty or property without due process of law. You have the right to be heard and a right to a fair trial. So if you're in administrative hearing where the states are incentivized, they're enforcing their own laws, they're creating their own laws and they're judging you, finding you guilty in their own administrative hearing and they're being incentivized based on their performance of putting people on child support. That's what makes child support in its entirety fraud.

Speaker 1:

So what's your thought process around child support? So okay, I see the processes are faulty based on what you just described. I don't know, I don't have children, but your thought process on the sense of entitlement, like the child support itself, how do you feel about it?

Speaker 3:

Entitlement.

Speaker 1:

You know some people, they feel entitled to it and I not even empathize like I might come across as being insensitive to our women because I hear, like some of these stories and the child support, that's way more than what you need to take care of the child, right? You using that money for you. So what is your thought process around it?

Speaker 3:

Well, entitlement. That's a real, simple answer. I'm going to just direct you to blessing versus freestone. Blessing versus freestone is a United States Supreme Court case where five women from Arizona, who children, were receiving benefits from the state. The state went after the fathers for child support. It was collecting all of the money. It was adding interest on top of the money. The interest went to the state and the women said, well, you're collecting this from our, you know, from the from the fathers, but we're only getting this amount. So where's the rest of the money? That's our money. So they sued child support In order to keep the money. Child support had to tell on themselves. They said child support was never intended to benefit the child nor the custodial parent. It was only intended to benefit the state. And child support there is no. It literally says there's no entitlement to child support. You have no rights to child support. It's you're. You're trading in another person's rights to gain privileges. So to ask you a question there is no entitlement to child support because there's no right.

Speaker 1:

So then, how can the courts continue to force that I say force upon men and women?

Speaker 3:

because they of course men and women both do child support. Primo Fosse, because if you don't come in there to contest it, the courts taking everything that's filed as true and correct on his face. So there's no innocent until proven guilty. You are guilty until you prove your innocence. That's how it works.

Speaker 2:

So remember when we had that conversation, Because it's another thing I want you to clear up too, because I know a lot of people get representation. Can you touch on, if you do decide to get representation, what that should look like and if not? Obviously you talk about the process of representing yourself, but speak on that because you said automatically if you see an attorney, that means you already lost.

Speaker 3:

You already lost because child support is not. Child support is voluntary. Where's my camera? This one, right here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3:

Child support is voluntary and I know that's going to ruffle some feathers. Child support is voluntary. This is not my opinion.

Speaker 1:

How can I tell people drive a slices of, put them in jail and do all these things Because they don't contest it?

Speaker 3:

Because they don't contest it. But now look, here's the thing. There's 45 CFR 303.5, which is the voluntary acknowledgement of paternity programs. Child support is voluntary. So in order for a person toin, order for them to start a child support case, paternity has to be established. And when paternity is established in a hospital by acknowledgement of paternity, sign a birth certificate, or you're given DNA or you're not showing up to a hearing, at that time they're supposed to provide both parents the legal consequences of establishing paternity. What are the legal consequences? You just gave a few Jail license, suspension, passport liens, bank levy, things of that nature. If they don't provide both parents with that the legal consequences and provide you the opportunity to speak with a professional, because they presume if we told you, if you sign this document you can go to jail, license and things of that nature, you're going to be like, wait a minute, maybe I need to talk to somebody else, I ain't signing this. So at that point, if they don't provide that information to both parents, it's the disclosures. I'm sure everyone in here purchased a car before they give you that loan. Those are the disclosures. The same thing with child support. If they don't give you those disclosures at that point.

Speaker 3:

Paternity was never established so therefore they can't even move on to child support. But to answer your question Makes it fraud? Yeah, because you have to. When a person hires an attorney, you recognize their authority giving them jurisdiction over you, because it's called a general appearance. A general appearance says for any act that you make in this court and you recognize our authority, you're given this jurisdiction. Because we never had it. You have to consent because child support is voluntary. How do you dispute that? I made a special appearance which says I'm not here, I'm not waiving any of my rights, I'm not here to talk about money, I'm only here to examine the evidence against me and that's it.

Speaker 1:

So, with everything that you just said, how is it that so many people get caught up in the system with child support?

Speaker 3:

Because they don't invoke their rights. So it starts in family court. Most men because it's mainly men there's, it's only men what I'm about to say because a woman, the child comes from them. So we know that this is your child, because the child came from you. But men do not invoke their parental rights stating I am a custodial parent, I've never abandoned my children, my children are not dependent or needy upon government assistance. I am present. So if you don't invoke your parental rights and you allow them to call you a non-custodial parent, at that point they presume that you've waived your parental rights. And that is your consent, because you didn't claim your parental rights. So we presume that you waived them.

Speaker 2:

You know it's crazy. Just to touch on a quick point, like the non-custodial, in a lot of my personal situations either the officers or whomever, especially in dealing with the police one of the first things they ask is well, who's the custodial parent?

Speaker 3:

That's the first thing they want to know, because at that point yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then when I say, okay, well, it's mom, I even have one officer to tell me what she could do, what she wanted to do, she ain't got to. Let you see, I was like, excuse me, no, ma'am, you ain't finna say that on my phone, but these people really. And then they think they know the law. And then they really don't know the law in the ways that you know what I'm saying, because other things are up for interpretation, right. So they assume, based on this, that and the third, they can just run it and do it how they want. But then my argument is well, why we got this paperwork? Then you got to go with what this paperwork is saying, period. I can't deviate from it, right, unless there's like a different type of agreement. But in the event that you can't agree, you fall back on your paperwork.

Speaker 2:

But I can't tell you how many times I've shown up at the school and don't fall. Don't fall to be like we can't get you. You know and no, you can. I know my rights as a father. Now I got to master gas Because you're not giving me medical, you're not giving me educational, you're not sharing with me the information that I'm privy to as a joint legal custodial parent. Now, the physical part is something that's different, but they will literally like, try to shut you down, and it used to frustrate me so much, man, it makes you feel like you, this big bro, because them people sit behind their desk and look you straight in your face Like well, I got to retop the mom first before I can know if you could take your job.

Speaker 3:

And that's great. They just called me.

Speaker 2:

These folks just called me, said hey, you need to go pick up someone from school. He ain't feeling good. Okay, cool, I'm here. Well, hold on, because you're not listed on it, and that's the other part, which I ain't gonna get into that right now. But they'll be like you're not listed as an adult that can pick up your child so we gotta call mom. We ain't do that at.

Speaker 3:

And that's why I encourage everyone to join legal. Like you said, join legal just means you guys decide school and health. That's it 50-50,. Yeah, that's it All. Joint legal custody means Joint physical custody is where both parents are equal. There's no primary, there's no primary home. The children reside here. They reside at two different locations, but if one is a primary, then the other is a noncustodial. That means one is greater than, one is less than, but in that you have to spend more time with your children to obtain joint physical custody. There's over 100,000 followers on my Instagram platform and most of them are fighting to be able to see their children. They're fighting the courts to get more time. Why does a father have to fight some mothers to see their offspring? And it's because they get bonuses. The more child support that they collect, the higher they get bonus. This is aside from your pay. You're incentivized.

Speaker 1:

How do they decide the amount of money that goes to a child, cause you see, there are people out here who get pregnant, just to get a check, we know that. How do they decide how much money is awarded, cause exactly what it is, it's not awarded to that parent.

Speaker 3:

So it goes off of the pay structure and the state Cause certain states and I was. I don't really want to get too deep into a situation. That's what. As far as what, tyrese? That's what he went to court, saying it's like yo, based on a Georgia statute, I'm only supposed to pay this amount. So that's what he took. That's what he went back to court for. It was saying look, georgia statute said I'm only supposed to pay this amount. Why are you increasing the child support to this amount? And they was like well, because your other child in Los Angeles, this is what they're receiving. So we're giving this to you.

Speaker 3:

You overstepping your boundaries, you're overstepping your boundaries. So, to answer your question, though it goes off of the pay scale and they have, if a person was to challenge it, they have you have to bring in your financial information. At that point you're already emitting your guilty. You're already emitting guilty because now you're participating into the program. So, as far as like with the payment, if you don't want to support your offspring, you don't claim your children in family court. They get to do what they want to do. They can take up to 75% of your every. But in blessing versus freestone, they said that every check that they collect they're only entitled to provide the other parent If it's aided. If that person is receiving government assistance, they're only supposed to give that person 50, just say, for instance, if they took $1,000.

Speaker 2:

So when you say aided, that means like, well, food stamps and okay, yeah, if it's aided.

Speaker 3:

So they're only supposed to give the mother the first $50 from that thousand. So they keep 950 and they give the mother 50.

Speaker 1:

They keep women. They keep, you mean the state keep.

Speaker 2:

The state yes, so the child, it's a child support taking the check. You might be giving the thousand, they getting 50.

Speaker 1:

So they taking the money and just pocketing it. I thought that was just like a channel where they navigate or distribute or yeah, so that's if it's aided.

Speaker 3:

But if it's unaided just say, for instance, if a person wants to go put someone on child support and there's not aided, they can take up to 75%, but usually the max that they take is 66% to where the states keep 66% and they provide the other parent.

Speaker 1:

I don't think people know what child support really is. Because if you, I just don't think that, if they knew that the state is gonna take a portion and pocket it, why would you go that route?

Speaker 3:

And that's why I yell it so loud. I encourage men and women to read the entire case of blessing versus restone, because they told on themselves and they told you that child support is not in a benefit of the child nor the custodial parent. It's only intended to benefit the state. Now I am a firm believer. My tagline is take care of them, kids though, because this ain't no get out of jail free card.

Speaker 1:

So I honestly believe if a person is not taking care of their children, they deserve to be on child support, but people take a parent to court and put them on child support just to take a dig.

Speaker 3:

True, and that's why I tell people reclaim your power, invoke your rights in family court, claim your parental rights to where the other parent is actually irrelevant. They can't you can't come to me and say, well, she did, or he did. Well, what did you do? Did you go and invoke your rights? Did you file to be a joint custodial parent? Because if you didn't, then why are we even having this conversation.

Speaker 2:

And a lot of people that need to hear is because that's how a lot of people get caught slipping too. When you go through divorce or a break, lean on me it's like it automatically kind of turns into mom being primary dad being the the visiting parent or whatever. And if to his point, if you could fresh out the gates right, because this is this is new information. You know what I mean. I've been in the court system for the past 18 years or so and I promise you, with a camera, if I could have knew something, I would have definitely did a lot of things.

Speaker 1:

Is there a way like okay, say, you're an active parent in your children's lives? Is there a way where you can avoid paying not take care of the kids, but avoid going through the court and paying child support?

Speaker 3:

Yes, so you can create an agreement between yourselves.

Speaker 1:

What if they don't want to do it? They just refuse.

Speaker 3:

Then if they refuse, then if it becomes a legal matter, even though it's not legal, because that's the thing you guys are before us, because you're incompetent to create an agreement between yourselves. So now we have to step in and provide our services, and for our services, you got to pay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then here's another thing, right, because unless you're dealing with somebody, what is it? The 4% of the world or something like that? You know the super-duper wealthy Mm-hmm Like for a lot of people that be going at men and making it a money issue. Like, in the grand scheme of things, even if you were to get $2,000, right, there's still a lot of money. When you start adding up rent or mortgage, car or insurance utilities, all of these things, you still got to do something for yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I feel like a lot of people get drove through the mud like, oh, you a deadbeat, you this, you that, and it's like, bro, it ain't no amount of money. That's sufficient, especially when there's motions involved, unless you, dr Dre or somebody like that. That's getting that type of money where you literally got somebody giving you 20, 30, a hundred grand a month and you don't have to work and you can just sit around, and that's different, but so many people being taken through. There. You got good fathers that are paying, but then they not seeing, yeah, and the other part, too, is the importance of seeing, because there are other fathers that could do it in different ways. Money is important, but that's another thing he speaks to, too. You can talk about that as well, because the part of taking care of your kids, though, talk about what you're doing with your platform and how you're getting guys to put their money in different places or educate them on different things they could do where it is benefiting their kids.

Speaker 3:

Right, because so the thing with child support child support is supporting your children emotionally, physically, spiritually, mentally and financially. Because, let's be real, these kids cost. It costs so what we do at tangible equity, which is my nonprofit to, where we educate both parents of their parental rights, and not only once their case is getting dismissed. So that's just say, for instance, someone is sending 10,000 a month in child support Now that that case is actually dismissed, this ain't just free money.

Speaker 3:

Now no, you don't just stop taking care of your kids. So what we do, we educate them on different things to okay, now you can put this 10,000 a month, you can put that in a trust for your kids. So now, once your kid grows up, now to 18, 25, you put in 10,000, if you want to just reduce it to 5,000, it's going to an actual trust fund for your children. And because most men they said I just want the money to go to my kid anyway, it's going, it's okay, so put that there. And then we educate you on how to manage that money to where it's put there. So when your children become of age, they have something in place for them that myself I didn't have once I turned 18.

Speaker 1:

So I have a question have you heard of co-parenting bird nesting, where the kids live in one home and the parents visit the kids in the family home? How does that affect child support? Oh no, that's different I don't who was I talking to about that where it's just they have a home, where you don't take the children out of the home they stay so they're not displaced. I don't have the conversation with. I have a. Okay, oh no, I got the research.

Speaker 1:

I had a conversation where the children was is in the home. They're not displaced, but the parent one parent come and stay a couple days, and then the other parent come and stay a couple days, and then that way the children are still there, you know, they're still in their own environment. So, then, like once the parent is not in the home, like whatever their life is aside from that, it is what it is and saying for the other parent.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I like that. I mean, my thing would be just for the average working person who can afford two homes Like that's to where you know you're here and you got a home just for the kids. Now I'm staying here. I like the idea of it because for me, I know that once one parent leaves the home, they're saying that you've abandoned your children. Now, now let's just take it back to the. When we're talking about child support, let's just give a brief history.

Speaker 3:

Child support starts from title for a. Title for a is a government grant program where the government gave states this money to help needy families in 1935. So in 1935, if a man went to war, this was after the Great Depression, when men went to work, I mean to war. Women couldn't work in 1935. So they needed this assistance. So that's what title for a came. That's how it came into play. Taxpayers were saying, hey, why are we giving all this money to these needy families Once things change and once women were able to work and vote and things of that nature? So in 1975, they started title for D, which is child support. Which title for D is not sexy, it does not move the need or it doesn't tap into your emotions. Title for D is the program is child support enforcement. But when you hear child support, you like, oh wait, you don't want to take care of your kids. It like your debt beat. Title for a is a grant. What is a grant? It's based on free money.

Speaker 3:

It's free money that you don't have to pay back. So if you're giving out free money from title for a that does not have to be paid back, how?

Speaker 1:

are you going after tax?

Speaker 3:

How are you going after a knock a studio parent to pay back money that was given as a grant? How are you obligated to participate in something that's voluntary? So these are the things that people have to understand. On how child support is fraud, like I, and as far as abandonment, because if someone separates and the father leaves, at that point they presume that you abandon your children If you don't claim your parental rights and I want to be a joint physical custody custodial parents. So I like the idea of what was it bird nesting?

Speaker 1:

It's called a bird. Yeah, burp, burp, uh, co-parenting bird nesting.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I like that idea yeah because it keeps there's no abandonment at that time, so we're both equal. There's no nine custodial parents, so I like it. I like the idea of it.

Speaker 2:

Speaking of ideas like in the perfect world for me, let me just dream real quick. First things first. It should be mandatory that, women, there's some type of DNA testing or something to establish who the real father is for us out the gate.

Speaker 3:

It is in Florida. Florida just put it started October 1st.

Speaker 2:

But being that you know, we up the street around the corner, we ain't hit that yet. You know what I mean, so I'm just going to plant this seed. That will be one of the first things that I would like to see. The second thing is I feel and believe that unless a father or mother revokes their rights, that both parties should be joint, legal and physical, out the gate. Unless a dad says that ain't what I want, or unless mom says that ain't what I want, then if there's an actual, they can't come to an agreement.

Speaker 2:

Remove the attorneys. Get you a good old guardian mid-light them More cost effective, and the guardian of light on Chanel is a person that solely represents the child. So that means that no attorney like it ain't no, my side, your side, it's none of that. Somebody that comes in and says what's best for the child, point blank, period and how that person. Go to the judge and say this is what it is. This is what we feel is the best situation. Now you got to get the right people on debt In order to do that but.

Speaker 2:

I feel like these are some of the things that could be so beneficial to having the courts be ran a lot smoother, because you got to think, like in one of my situations, it took a year and a half just to get a date, a year and a half of collected contempt and all kind of stuff going on. You know what I'm saying? Just taking record of dealing with all of that. The year and a half messed her up. She had to cough. But when I just think about all of these things and then the amount of money that's being paid in my personal situation, when I look at what I paid over 17 years or so you talking about low end 700,000, 750,000 that could have went towards these children, their benefits, their wellness, anything like that you know what I mean. That's going on.

Speaker 2:

So I just hope and wish, because it's a man thing and the other thing too is not as a black thing, it's like it's men. I'll never forget I was in court one day. I saw this Caucasian brother. He didn't come up with whatever money he was supposed to them folks saying he couldn't pick up his phone and send a text, nothing. It's like they gave a hand signal and them folks came behind him and locked him up on spot, which is another thing I know you can speak on too, because again, it's not right, it's fraud on that end too, because you're not supposed to be able to.

Speaker 3:

You can't go to jail for child support, because child support is a debt. There's no debt or prisons in the United States.

Speaker 1:

How do people get over and get away with this though?

Speaker 3:

Prima Fasi. You know and there's something that they have tricky things in place. Ignorance of the law is not illegal defense. So if you're here representing yourself, we presume that you did your own due diligence to be able to represent yourself. And if you hired someone and they didn't make a special appearance on your behalf, you gave us jurisdiction. Wow, Because they got to say special appearance.

Speaker 3:

They have to say special appearance, like there's the FDCPA, which is the Fair Debt Credit Protection Act. They don't recognize child support as a consumer debt. But there's a Supreme Court case law called POTET versus POTET where they said that you have an obligation to support your children, but once that obligation is transformed into a money judgment, where A is going after B for X amount of dollars when they're taking your check every two weeks or every month or whatever that system is that obligation is reduced to a money judgment For a debt and it is unconstitutional for anyone to go to jail for a debt. That is not fraud. The only way you can go to jail for a debt is if you committed fraud. That's it.

Speaker 1:

All right guys. Well, I love you brother.

Speaker 2:

Keep doing what you're doing, man, and I know you're hustling and grinding and doing all these things, man, but again, successful. Black brother married. You got a unicorn story, no matter if it was on and off.

Speaker 2:

It was still somebody that you met high school around that time, y'all rocking together, y'all raising your children together. You're successful in business. Your wife is doing her thing. I just think it's good to see that. And God actually put this on you, brother, because you're going to bless a lot of people, because nobody's doing and even if it is, it might be one other person or something like that but this space, because you got and that's the other thing too, man, you got to be protected, bro, because this is you know what I'm talking about, bro, because it's reaching into a territory, man, where the power's to be really looking like hold up now, Because you're tapping into it to this space that is coming into what?

Speaker 3:

we're doing the money train on, and I mean many people have got their case dismissed, but I don't know not one other person who got their case dismissed for extrinsic fraud, like it literally says. They committed fraud because I prove I broke down their actual system. And one last thing I just want to say because I know it affects a lot of people as well child support should not, should not, should not be on your credit report Because it wasn't given as there was no credit transaction. Child support was notified by the credit bureaus 13 years ago that the laws have changed and if you, they left it up to child support until we get everything in place, we're leaving it up to you. Child support should not be on anyone's credit report. So if your, if child support is on your credit report right now, today, if you're watching it and it's on your credit report, that's fraud, wow.

Speaker 1:

Well, tell the people where they can find you.

Speaker 3:

Everything is real simple. Childsupportisfraudcom. Child support is fraud on Instagram. Child support is fraud on YouTube. Childsupportisfraudcom. Keep it real simple. You know they try to put the hold on me on Instagram. You know putting restrictions on me, but you know everything is. Child support is fraud. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate it, brother, because us we literally can probably dive another 34 to man, because you got so much game to give and there's so many parents, especially fathers, that need to hear this. And again, like you said, it's not just you know the fathers that's going through it, it's, you know, women, you know just on both sides. But thank you, man, to keep doing the work that you're doing. Thank you for blessing us with your presence, man, all the way from La La my dog from Compton to the A yeah man, you know what I'm saying Sooted and booted.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate y'all for having me.

Speaker 2:

You know I had to come right.

Speaker 3:

I mean, you know the queen, she comes ready. I said okay.

Speaker 2:

I gotta you know.

Speaker 3:

get in that mindset of you, stay a lot in love with me, brother we appreciate you, man.

Speaker 2:

Let's love relationships matter.

Speaker 1:

I need you to understand relationships matter.