Relationships Matter Live

Pastor Dwight Buckner: Keep Your Drawls Up! Mistaking Lust for Love.

• Chanel Scott and Josh Powell

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Have you ever found yourself caught in the relentless grip of lust, mistaking it for love? Pastor Dwight Buckner Jr joins us in an impassioned discussion, unraveling the confusion between these consuming forces and offering a beacon of hope for those yearning to break free from destructive cycles. In a raw and riveting journey into our deepest connections, we confront the shadows of our desires, and together, we chart a course toward healing and self-discovery.

Our candid conversation cuts through the noise of social media's false reflections of worth, spotlighting the holiday season's trials as we navigate the murky waters of loneliness and self-love. Listen as we share our personal stories of love, loss, and the hard-earned wisdom that arises from setting boundaries and honoring ourselves. Our guest, Pastor Dwight, lends his profound insights, shaping a narrative that promises to enlighten and transform the way you approach relationships and self-worth.

With tales of resilience, we delve into the complex tapestry of our beliefs and experiences, discussing how they shape our quests for intimacy and faithfulness. From Joshua's honest revelations about marriage and monogamy to the broader challenges of leadership in the face of temptation, this episode is an invitation to join a community seeking truth and integrity. Tune in for a powerful exploration of love, lust, and the enduring human spirit, all stitched together with a prayer for the strength to become our best selves.

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Opposing experiences, a single woman and a married man, Chanel Scott, and Josh Powell, create a powerful and empathetic team, offering valuable insights and advice on navigating the complexities of romantic relationships and promoting healthier, more fulfilling connections.

Join Chanel and Josh as they unlock the secrets of successful relationships one conversation at a time.


Speaker 1:

I'm Chanel Scott, the queen of relationship talk.

Speaker 2:

I'm Josh Powell, two-time NBA champion.

Speaker 1:

I've journeyed from trauma to healing.

Speaker 2:

From the NBA to family, I've learned what really matters.

Speaker 1:

We've come together to unlock the secrets of successful relationships.

Speaker 2:

One conversation at a time.

Speaker 1:

One conversation at a time. Welcome to Relationships Matter, the podcast. My name is Chanel Scott.

Speaker 2:

I'm Josh Powell.

Speaker 1:

And guys, we have an amazing episode for you guys today. We have a special guest, Pastor Dwight Buckner. We are so excited to have you.

Speaker 3:

Hey man, I'm honored to be here. Thank you guys for having me. And congratulations to both of you in this wonderful podcast and success. Honored to be here. Honored to be here.

Speaker 1:

We're excited to have you, sir, absolutely. We're going to be talking about your latest book, breaking the Cycles of Lust, and there's so much in that we're going to have you break it down for us today. So, before I start asking you a million questions, talk a little bit about the book.

Speaker 3:

Well, the book is really based off of personal experience. I have been one that have dealt with lust in the past and I learned that through that, that lust did not start with me. Most of it is transgenerational. It's in the family, some things that we have picked up just naturally because someone in the family has struggled with it, and so I really begin to wrestle around the fact of where did this come from? Is it just me? Is it, is it someone else in the bloodline that dealt with these issues? And how do I overcome it? Because if not maintained or eliminated, you'll destroy your entire life.

Speaker 2:

So when you say, struggle with it, do you? Can you describe some of the examples Right? Could that? Could that mean like you witnessed it? Could that mean that something may have happened to somebody in their childhood Like can you expound upon?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think if that's a very broad question, I'm glad you asked it. I think lust is a point where, if I've struggled with it, then did somebody do something to me that I see, something that's visual. A lot of people that have struggled with lust come to find out there's somebody in their family that dealt with it. They had this natural attraction for something that they couldn't let it go. And lust is not just sexual lust, it could be material lust, and so, with that being said, for me my experience, josh, was that I found out at an early age that there were things that I was drawn to.

Speaker 3:

My issue I'm going to be honest with you, if I start bastering my issue was women, and so I found out I said well, lord, why do I feel a need to have to date different people? Why is it that I feel a need to always have to want to be with somebody? And it wasn't, it wasn't natural. It wasn't natural, and so I had to really begin to deal with the root of lust and found out there was somebody in my family that dealt with the same thing we love the Lord, or spiritual, but there's also with every, with every family. In it there's there's strengths and there's weaknesses, and so the weakness that's in my family was lust, and so I began to really be to deal with this whole notion of why do we struggle with this. Can we be free from this? Can we break this cycle so that it doesn't pass down to my kids and then my children's children?

Speaker 1:

I have a two part question. So you said it's not natural and I want to know how did you distinguish that? And then I also want you to talk about what is the difference between lust and love.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think our greatest example of love is in First Corinthians, where scripture Paul says that love is patient. Love is kind. It keeps no record of wrong. Love is more of a. It's a covenant. You keep your side of the covenant, I keep my side of the covenant. I give you give. Lust is more contractional. It's it's I want something from you. Uh, and and and vice versa. And the thing about lust is that it doesn't necessarily have to be with the same person. Uh. Lust says well, if you don't give it to me, I'm going to get it from somewhere else. Uh, or I'm going to go to this person who will give it to me. Lust can never be satisfied. So it's a distinct difference between love and lust, because love says I'm with you through the thick and thin, I don't just want something from you, but in fact I'm putting in the same effort that you're putting in where it is together. Lust says I'm going to get what I want. I'm gone, see you later, wow.

Speaker 1:

So how did you again decipher that? This is not natural Like this. The way that I'm currently operating is not natural Like what was some of the. I want you to articulate some of the, the signs, what was actually happening, so people can identify when they are actually cause. A lot of times people don't know the difference, right, I think, when you're when you're the difference.

Speaker 3:

When you're drawn away by lust, you can literally be at work and something that's attractive to you or lustful to you can cause you to completely neglect your actual assignment at work, Go home or leave where you are and go after the thing that you're lusting for. One of the greatest examples was, was, was, was David. He was God's chosen vessel. God's chosen vessel soldier loved the Lord. He was home from battle and he should have been at war, but instead of being at battle, he allowed lust to keep him in a place of safety, Excuse me, a place of where the enemy could come in and destroy him. He sees Bathsheba. She's bathing, but he was never supposed to be at home. He was supposed to be on the battlefield.

Speaker 1:

He's out of position, yeah.

Speaker 3:

But lust drove him home to a place where he knew he can get it.

Speaker 2:

Can lust and desire be separate, or are they want to decide?

Speaker 3:

I think there's. There's a difference in having a lustful desire and a healthy desire. Okay, I can have a desire to want to sleep with you and I'm not married to you or I'm not in covenant with you. That's a lustful desire. Or I can have a desire to want to do better in life to love. So there's a distinct difference. Now, when we talk about the desires of the flesh, those are desires that I would assume are evil, desires that could potentially destroy our spiritual being, and so, um, yeah, it's a desire, but it's it's it's unhealthy desire.

Speaker 2:

Do you think anything about the behavior can be natural, Cause I know you said is is not natural. Were you speaking for?

Speaker 3:

you or were you?

Speaker 2:

speaking.

Speaker 3:

What I, what I say, not natural, of course, if you're married, there are things that both of you can share. The bedroom is is undefiled. There's a natural desire there for each other. When I say that lust is unnatural, I'm speaking in terms of it's unnatural for you to spend four hours on a computer, uh, looking at porn. That's unnatural, uh, it's it's unnatural for you to sleep with six different people the same week that that's unnatural, uh, that that is. That is something that needs to be contained, something that you really have to deal with, um, and there are people that actually think that it's okay, uh, that it's natural, but it's not what, what? What it really speaks to is? It speaks to love, deprivation. It speaks to the fact that I'm suffering from something that I never got.

Speaker 3:

Since I never got it, maybe these different individuals or this site can fulfill a void that was never filled in my life, which it doesn't, because lust cannot be satisfied. So, when we talk about lust, some people are drawn away by lust, because they're really longing for a hug, they're really longing for somebody to tell them that they'll be okay, they're really long for somebody to give them, you know, inspiration and hope and encouragement. But because some people haven't ever got that. They'll seek for lust, which is a smoke screen. Lust will send you down a direction you should not go, but when you, when you're led by lust, it's really saying what do you really want? What? What are you really longing for? Because this individual is not it. So, evidently, had you got what you needed, maybe these proclivities and and and these desires wouldn't be there like that, Right.

Speaker 2:

What do you feel, cause you deal with people often on a daily right, what do you feel is the most consistent void that people are trying to fill? Because a lot of times, right, we watch social media. We talked to our friends, our family, and you've already touched on it Like we normalize a lot of things. So I'm asking for somebody, cause I'm sure somebody just can hit home for somebody, like you know, that may not look at that void as a void. They might think that that's something that's completely natural and normal. So, with the work that you're doing, you know, um, what do you feel will probably be one of the top two or three boys that people are trying to fill?

Speaker 3:

Um, well, I think one void they're trying to feel is love, Love, Um, there is a lack of love that people have received, Right, and if I grew up in a household and my mother never told me she loved me and my father wasn't there, I'm seeking into different avenues to get something that I never got. So love is one. Another one is hope. Um, there are just some people that are just completely lost. Uh, they need to be inspired and they need to be told that you can make it, that you are great. They weren't told these things growing up. So if that was the case, if they weren't told these things growing up, then they're going to look in a place that may be unhealthy, as long as they feel like I'm getting something that I've been longing for.

Speaker 3:

Um. The third one I would say is is security. People are looking for security and and and. If they never got security of, or if they never knew who they were, then what happens is that they allow their insecurities to run them into environments and into circles that they should not be into. Um, social media is a great tool if you're doing um outreach or promoting or marketing things of that nature. We love social media, but also can be very detrimental to your mental and your health. Because, Absolutely, you find yourself comparing followers and lifestyles and somebody stands in front of a Rolls Royce and you're borderline depressed because you drive in a Honda and you're basing that off of a picture, a picture Uh and, and so um, um, we have to look in healthy areas in terms of what we use as our motivation and not just a screen to say this is my life.

Speaker 2:

No, absolutely, and when we get back faster. I want to uh, open up the conversation a little bit more in regards to why people confuse love with lust. Yes, when we get back, relationships matter to podcast.

Speaker 1:

So we're talking about the difference between lust and love and I want to say I think I want to ask a question or make a statement because just through our conversation it takes me back to some of these dysfunctional relationships that we see, even for myself I've been a part of in the past, where we actually think that we love an individual when in fact it's lust, especially when it turns toxic and dysfunctional and you still stay.

Speaker 1:

So then there's that really love it can be. It has to be lust, right? So that's like a aha moment, like wow, I thought I love this person when I was really lusting at the something that maybe I was void of.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would say into all of our listeners um, everyone that hugs and kisses you doesn't love you. Uh, and I think that's one of the greatest mistakes that we make us thinking that if somebody hugs me or kisses me or we have an intimate connection, that they love me right. I think that's how a lot of hearts are broken. Uh, because we get into stuff assuming that because we've been intimate together that we have a future together.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

And that's not the case, because love, lust, now goes in to take what it wants and then it leaves. And if you're somebody who is desiring love and relationship and you're lonely, sometimes you'll let your standard down for a bum just to fulfill a void. You don't even care if they work, you don't care if they love the Lord, you don't care if they got anything going, but because you're, you're longing for love so bad you're willing to allow lust to be the substitute for love. And so, and so we get into these very vulnerable spaces when we're really seeking out a love and relationship, and we'll be satisfied with something temporal, knowing it's not forced, but because we don't want to be lonely, we're like you know, yeah, you can come over when you want to come, and we get off work. There doesn't have to be any strings attached.

Speaker 3:

You get what you want, I get what I want. I just need to know somebody's there for me. And let me say this since we're entering into holiday season, folk are going to want to be booed up. They're going to be sitting around the fireplace eating marshmallows and watching Christmas movies, but they want somebody there with them. And so if we don't have anybody that will be there with us, we'll lower our standard. Go find somebody for the moment, take pictures and post it to make it look like we're happy when we're really suffering.

Speaker 1:

But you know, something passed to Dwight. I think a lot of people don't even know what love is because they they've never experienced it, right, um, I think for me personally, I've learned how to love myself just by being a student of the word.

Speaker 3:

Come on.

Speaker 1:

Like I've never experienced it outside of the dynamic of my family. You know what I'm saying. Like my mother and father, they love me more than anything and I know this, right. But I've never experienced it outside of that. And I think, for someone like me, before I learned how to love myself through the word, I didn't know any better, right, like I just thought that this is what it is, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And times when I've even gotten stuck in certain situations. Most times I would think, well, I can't see past the situation, like I don't think there's anything else out there that's better, and I got to deal with it with someone, so I might as well just tolerate it here until I learned better. But I only learned that because I'm a student of the word. That was God. I had nothing to do with that and he chose to show me and demonstrate his love toward me in such a special way. But everybody don't have that same experience, yeah. So, like, how do you even tap into? Like, what is love? How do I even start? Like, if you don't have that relationship, how do you even start to learn? How, cause people say you know you need to love yourself more, but you got to make that practical Like. How do I practically learn to love myself if I've never been taught how to do it?

Speaker 3:

Well, I think it's critical that you understand that, that nobody can really make you happy the way you think they can.

Speaker 1:

Right, that's right.

Speaker 3:

I've learned that, and you cannot depend on somebody to bring you so much joy. You don't need to wait to date somebody to go to the movies. Right, take yourself to the movies.

Speaker 1:

It would be good to have somebody that looks. We're not going to diminish, but I understand what you're saying though.

Speaker 3:

But take yourself to the movies, treat yourself to a massage. All of that is self care. You're you're. You're learning how to effectively love you. If you don't know how to love you, you cannot love anybody else adequately. They did a study years ago in the earth and the the surface of the ocean regarding diamonds, and they did a discovery and found out that if you begin to dig really, really low in the ocean surface, there's a particular diamond called a blue diamond, and blue diamonds are diamonds that can absorb heat and pressure. They're extremely, extremely rare and the price tag on them is is really out of the roof because they're rare.

Speaker 3:

I've come to find out that we have a lot of blue diamonds out there that don't know their true value. When you know your value, then you'll stop dating people that have pawn shop mentalities. There are a lot of people that that don't know the cost to have you. They don't know the price to have you, but do you know your worth? Do you know your value? When you begin to look at that blue diamond and look at yourself, then you'll begin to realize. You know what. I can't settle for this. I know I am, and it's not a cockiness, it's not pride. It's not you being up, it's just you knowing who you are. And if you know who you are, then you wait on God to bring the right person.

Speaker 1:

I want you to talk about. How do you know this? Because, I mean, everybody don't have that relationship. I think about when I was in that space of just deficient, of the love, of the attention that I thought I wanted from a man, and not knowing my value and seeing more value in them than I saw in myself. So I would pour into them and then I would be deficient. You know what I'm saying? Because it wasn't reciprocated and so, like I really wish somehow somewhere we could talk about practically outside, because I was doing all those things. I had no choice, though, as a single woman. If you want to go out to eat, you got to take yourself out. You want to go to the movies, you don't have to do it by yourself. So I did those things naturally right.

Speaker 1:

But, just learning practically how to just say you know, I really, because no one's going to admit that they don't love themselves. Like I didn't realize that I didn't love myself until I learned to love myself. And then I realized wow you really didn't love yourself, because if you loved yourself, you wouldn't allow someone to treat you that way. You know, but again, I'm one of God's chosen.

Speaker 1:

So he took it upon himself to sit me down and teach me, because I had a natural desire, like I love the word, I have an affinity toward the word, but I know everybody is it that way, you know. And so because he gave me that, like I sat under a word and I just allowed God to pour into me and then, during that process, he began to give me revelation about me, who I was. He stripped me down first of all Let me see me, the way he saw me but then he built me back up. That's a process and that took years, you know.

Speaker 1:

So I just like for the women, because I'm the voice of the single woman. I want women to really learn how to really love themselves, Because we think we love ourselves. Until we really learned that we like if you really loved yourself, you wouldn't allow certain things. You just wouldn't.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so before, you answer, though, pastor, and that's a great point, but I need to piggyback on the flip side of it, because you know, even though we do have to learn right, there's also that part of things, because you talked about this earlier. We're talking about lust. We're talking about lust. Then learning how to not love yourself can also be something that's passed down as well, because when you're watching the behaviors of mom, dad or whoever your guardian is, when you're seeing how your siblings are treating you or how other family members or maybe friends, like these are things that you learn to believe and accept as okay. Well, we still kicking it. You know they still around.

Speaker 2:

Maybe this is what love looks like. You know what I'm saying. Maybe love does come with hurt, and that's supposed to be okay and acceptable. You know what I mean. So I just had to speak to that, because I do think, on the flip side, so many times, outside of the pain or the abuse, or traumas and stuff like that, like certain things are just passed down. So we have to be willing to say stops with me, let me figure out something, because it doesn't feel good. But I just wanted to say that real quick, but you got it, pastor.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think some of us have seen love from a very distorted lens and if we seen it from a distorted lens growing up, then we're gonna think it's naturally healthy. You might think it's healthy or natural to be in abusive relationship because, you saw that growing up, only to find out as you get older.

Speaker 3:

that's not gonna cut it. But you said something very key, josh. You said that it stops with me. I think we all have to make up in our mind that we're not going to live with our mother or father's demons, absolutely. We have to learn how to cut that off at the root, because some things we've inherited naturally and we do it naturally because we've seen it growing up. But it stops with us.

Speaker 3:

You have to say to yourself I'm gonna be the last generation to die broke. I'm gonna be the last generation to sleep with multiple people. I'm gonna be the last generation to go through divorce. My family divorce runs in my family. So I had to make a very conscious decision. When I got married, I said you know what? Whatever happens, we're gonna strive to stay together. I want the curse to be broken with me. My mother and father were married for 17 years and then they divorced after 17. But I have to be the one to say you know what? No, we're gonna stay together because I don't want that curse to follow my children. Furthermore, it's more than just you. There are generations and people that are looking up to you as a model to see if you're gonna stay married or if you're gonna do the right thing, and so it does. Stop with us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Absolutely Well. For one, it's safe to say that you do not subscribe to Cuffin Season, I'm assuming?

Speaker 3:

I'll say it like this it depends on the extent of what that cuffing is.

Speaker 2:

Got you, I got you, I just. But now, when we get back, though, I'd still wanna ask to be able to distinguish between love and lust, and I also got another one in the bag, but we'll answer that one. He will answer that one. When we get back to Relationships Matter, the podcast Relationships.

Speaker 1:

Matter. Welcome back to Relationships Matter, the podcast. So before we get back into this hot topic of lust and love, I wanna encourage you all to like, share and subscribe on all major streaming platforms. So before we went to break Josh, you were stating to Pastor Dwight that you had a question. Go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker 2:

So it's a two-part question and for one to help people recognize that there is a large difference between love and lust. So I want you to break that down and where I'm going with it, cause I know we spoke about it a little bit during the break, but a lot of people are basing relationship on the outer Right. You got this attractive man, you got this beautiful woman. They're coming together, but they're basing the relationship, the connection, communication, their whole foundation is strictly on the fact that I have this attractive man at home and I got this beautiful woman at home, which also leads to people wanting to have babies first prior to making a serious commitment. So I know that's another conversation in itself, but I just think that we should break that down some more because it's giving people false hope in the relationship space, because their focus is off from the beginning and then, when that part dies and we're wondering why so many breakups, so many single parent households and the communities are lacking, it's because we're not focusing on the other parts to the person.

Speaker 3:

So Well, I think it's a great question. I think it's critical to say this is that, first of all, demons are not ugly. That is, we have to address that Demons are not ugly. So that's how.

Speaker 2:

Hey, can we get a, sir Quincy? Hey, Quincy, we need a. We gotta put that one on a sir.

Speaker 3:

Oh my God, demons are not ugly. That's good. That's good. Most of the people, some of the craziest people that I ever got hooked up with, were beautiful. The problem was is that I wanted a long term relationship with somebody who I had just solely based the outer culturements of. But demons are beautiful, and so the devil's never gonna send you something that you don't want. That's the first thing.

Speaker 2:

So he can bless you too. Huh, the devil can bless you too. In a negative way.

Speaker 3:

There you go, he's gonna send you something and it's very temporal. He's gonna send you something that you want Hips, complexion, hair, muscles, abs, whatever you want He'll send it to you. You don't normally find out that it's, that it's a demon, until you spent some time with it, till you find out you know what. We take good pictures together, we've got intimacy, but you're abusive. Or or you don't want anything out of life, or you're controlling and and a lot of us think that we found love Visually before we actually, before we actually find out that it was lust.

Speaker 3:

Let me, let me say this to you the worst thing you can do is Get hooked up with somebody and have beautiful babies with them, a beautiful looking family, but you want to separate from them because you realize I did not really fully unravel or discover their mental, their genealogy. Where they came from, with their family history, is what they deal with. That's the whole purpose of marriage counseling is I don't listen. You can be cute all you want, but if you can't pay bills, then we don't have a future. You can be nice looking, but if you don't want to do some very fundamental basic things, then this thing is not gonna work. And I think a major challenge is that we've hooked up with some people that look really good but there's no substance there, there's no future there, and most people that that that that you hook, that you have hooked up with that you finally have no substance. They know they ain't got no substance. They have a history of hooking up with people or choosing people like you because they know that that they're gonna live off of you.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm, and let me say this to you as well In looking for mate, you should always look spiritually first for the mate. If I get into an accident, I don't care how cute you are. I Want to know if you can pray for me while I'm in ICU, while I'm in the hospital. I want to know that you're going to do homework with the kids. You know that you're gonna help move the family forward. And so the Bible says I believe it's Proverbs that charm is deceptive, beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised. What that scripture is implying is that you cannot allow what you see on the outward to control your future.

Speaker 2:

The fear the Lord is the substantial and the substance of the thing that I keep it going Some people don't realize it and you can pick it back off of this, but I feel that for some, lust is forever. Hmm, because a lot of people right, if the sex or chemistry is that good, mm-hmm, then they will bypass the other toxic behaviors only for a certain amount of time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, there are some people I can think of personally, Because you also look at it from the standpoint to a like we don't divorce over here. You know what I mean but they, then they dip in.

Speaker 2:

They might be different, right, but but. But what I'm sharing is People still will be caught up in this cycle and it's it's ongoing and it could be based on the look, the Attraction, that, excuse me, the attraction. It could be based on the chemistry, it could based on different things, but they're not doing any of the other work. You know what I'm saying and I I just know that. I've had personal conversations Putting that out there. Like there's got to be more. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Like when you talk about substance, and All you got to bring to the table is how you look a good smile, a nice body and you feel like that's enough Because that's what you're used to. A lot of people are used to that. Just like a man with money, if that's all he got to bring to the table, he feel like that's what works. And it's sad because we talk about lust from a sexual but we also spoke about this too but From a financial standpoint, there are women who are staying with men who have money and they're they're good with that, they're gonna be okay with. Just like I'll settle with the fact that I got this nice house. I can do what I want, I don't have to work this down, the third, but they dying inside, yeah and that, to me, I think, is more so what someone has seen growing up.

Speaker 3:

You've seen somebody that was Living that same type of lifestyle or behavior, and that's all you may know, or that's all you've seen growing up. The worst thing you can do is stay with somebody Because of the money, because once they dry the money up, then what does that leave you? And so this is why you do have to have your own, you do have to work, you do have to strive to be the best you can be and, truthfully, the the foundation of a healthy relationship is two people coming together, both want to work towards something. You may not even have nothing, both of you, but if you you're willing to work towards something and you both give a hundred percent, then that it turned out to be wonderful. The challenge is now, especially in our generation, is that we want everything to be microwave. You know we don't want to work for nothing. You know we want, we want somebody who makes Six figures and we don't even have a job, we don't even care to get a job because we're looking for these handouts. But that's not reality and that's not going to. That's not sustainable. But what is sustainable is the fact that you can bring something to the table. It may not be as much as money which somebody else, who, who, who is willing to work with you.

Speaker 3:

I remember years ago, many, many years ago, way before I got married, you know, I dated someone that was financially well off. I mean, they were rolling and and For me I was saying, you know this, for me I was saying this could never work because I'm just not at a stage in my life where I could properly receive, and I want to grow to the place where I could be able to Contribute as much, and that that was for me then. So I would have rather Data somebody that was more so on my level, financially just starting, just growing, as opposed to somebody who was already up here. Now they weren't condescending or nothing like that. But what I'm saying is that there's something about having somebody that's kind of where you are, where you both have goals and vision and aspiration, strategy and plan to work towards something successful.

Speaker 1:

I've noticed that even in the area of professional athletes. I've noticed that you see these men, they make a lot of money, they have these beautiful women when they're in the league and the moment they retire, you see such as getting divorced or something on social media where they're not together, yeah, or somebody leaving such and such.

Speaker 1:

Yeah you know what I'm saying. So it does come to an end. Or even you mature, or, like we had, steven, you know, and he talked about his now wife as opposed to how things were before, because you grow up and you see people for who they really are.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know. Yeah, and to answer that, chanel, I used to feel really bad In my college years because Some of the women that I was attracted to weren't attracted to me because they wanted the athletes. You know, they was like you know, I'm getting with the athlete because some of their mind was I'm gonna be a millionaire. And it was one lady in particular, she, that I was interested in and she deliberately ran after an athlete and and years later didn't work out. They got injured. And Then she comes back trying to, you know, talk to me and says well, I should have went with you. You end up, you know, going into ministry and I'm like no, you were just looking for you know, you know, and and I even think that there are some athletes that know when somebody's with them, Because you know incident.

Speaker 2:

We get back relationships matter.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to relationships matter the podcast. So before we went to break, I was asking you, joshua, when you were in the league specifically, did you overlook the fact? When you knew women had the wrong intention? Like, did you even know? You know they were just trying to get with you Because of who you were, what you had, or were they genuinely interested in you?

Speaker 2:

I think we would have to ask them. But respectfully, I mean I was married during my majority of my tenure, so you know I've done my due diligence was not the best husband. I take ownership for my decisions and I was a part of a life. My belief system is different. I was raised different. Some of the things that I still struggle with to this day because my belief system is still the same.

Speaker 1:

What's your belief system?

Speaker 2:

I don't believe in monogamy.

Speaker 1:

But you practice monogamy.

Speaker 2:

I do subscribe to the channel.

Speaker 1:

But you don't believe in it.

Speaker 2:

Talk about that. The reason is and I've been very open about- this because I'm spiritually on my journey and for 38 years I'm 40 now never met a monogamous man, never met a monogamous woman.

Speaker 1:

You met a monogamous woman.

Speaker 2:

Never heard, never heard.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to be a monogamous woman.

Speaker 2:

But people have put on. But you know I'll be thinking that you be storing something in your vault, I know. But we're going to say that one. But let me get my dog so past it and go ahead and hit me with that ducky one time. But basically, brother, I was groomed different. I was shown different things, a different way of life. My understanding was as long as home is good, no problems. That don't come back. You smooth, we man, we do what we do.

Speaker 2:

I also have a history of sexual abuse, like things that I've seen in my sexual abuse started at nine, 10 years old, so we talking about years, decades of what I felt in Dean was normal. And then I actually at 36, what was the pandemic like? Three years ago, right before that, when we had first started working on you know what I mean on podcasts and books, whatever. And I remember I sat in your driveway and I had a counselor. I had a therapy session and for the first time my therapist told me she was like. I'll explain to her some things that happened to me in my childhood. She said you know you were sexually abused, right?

Speaker 1:

He didn't know it.

Speaker 2:

I had no clue, bro. I sat there for 10 minutes, bro, and I felt, I felt some way. I just didn't know what it was, I was feeling, and I didn't say a word for 10 minutes and she just looked at me. She was just like it's okay, you know what I'm saying. Like, whatever it is that you feel and like, just try to let it out. And I just, I was just confused in the first thing that I asked her.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, but that's how I grew up, that was normal to me. Like nobody, nobody told me it was bad to be doing the things that I was doing when I was a teenager and I was laying up with women 20 years older than me. Nobody told me that that was something that wasn't supposed to, you know, be happening. I thought that that was normal because we all were participating. You know what I'm saying. So it really has shaped me in a way that I still like it's something that I still it's still a challenge, I guess I don't want to say it's a struggle, because, again, I believe, like I thoroughly feel that way. You know what I mean. But but I do understand that it comes from something. I acknowledge that and I'm aware of it Right, and on the other side, I feel like it became something that, because that was my normal, it's like I like it, even though I understand, okay, this behavior happened when it happened. But I get to this also a part of why I feel the way that I feel too.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I think a large part of that too, josh, is because the enemy loves to attack your innocence. And so if he can come in, even at the age you were, and begin to manipulate, or use people to manipulate, to get you to think that this is okay behavior and you should this, this was natural, then he uses it as a tool to try to get you to think that, hey, everything I've done was right, everything that I got into was okay, when in all reality, they may not have been okay, and so what I? But when I heard you talking, um, I really heard the Lord saying that there's some, some healing that is even taking place. And even as you get older, you'll find yourself being loosened from some of these layers that were thrown on you, things that were not okay, and I even see an inward healing happening there. And I know you just, you just wrote a book, but there's another book that's going to be coming and some more transparency that would be shared from that book. But there's going to be a healing that takes place from some of the stuff that you, that you have gone through.

Speaker 3:

Um, you're coming to a place now in your life where you're finally becoming more settled. You know, um, I'm selling in. Yeah, there's some things you still think are right on that, but you're starting to become a little more settled and starting to realize, hey, maybe maybe that was not right, maybe maybe the wrong person was in my ear, maybe the wrong people were around me, but there's, there's a healing taking place there and and you're not where you used to be, even probably mentally with that, but, um, yeah, I can see the maturity in how you've you're started to grow from what was to where you are now. So, kudos to you and even the growth that that's taken place in your life and you even recognizing, in your previous marriage, hey, there were some things I did wrong, I messed up, but so you've acknowledged that there was some, some immature things that I've done. So that's the first step to healing.

Speaker 2:

So I I appreciate that I do want to add a little bit more to that, because for me, I feel like I'm acknowledging that I heard a person that I that I took a vow to right, yes, but I, because I didn't know how to communicate properly where I was at that time. Right, I'm trying to be on what someone else wants me to be on, and it it was a painful process.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know, and there are other things that I could say but just for me to take ownership for me, like that's why I say like that was, that was hurtful.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I do want to ask you though you know because you're, you know you're, you're married and even from the standpoint of you know, being a pastor, like there, it's like a different level of you know how people view you, how you're supposed to move, but you're still a man at the end of the day. So what, what did that look like for you in your healing and for you to be able to overcome that feeling? Because you said it was something that you had dealt with early on in the conversation. So I think it's important for people to understand that.

Speaker 3:

Yes, great question. Now. I've never, of course, been abused any of that thing, but I've dealt with, you know, lust at different levels of my life, at any younger age. God uses imperfect people, and so I had to realize that I'm qualified to be someone's pastor based on my experience and what I've been through, and we need more pastors and leaders that will be more transparent. Um, I'm not speaking to people every Sunday and every week because I'm perfect. I'm speaking to you because I've I've been through some things and God's allowed me to be a vessel to share, um my transparency and what I've been through and how it could help somebody else overcome Um truth of the matter is, if there's a, if a lot more leaders or pastors would be more transparent, then more people would get free.

Speaker 3:

Um, um, it's hard, uh, to be in this position and to act like everything is always okay. Yeah, um, folk need to know what you've been through. They need to know your history. Um, and so, even with this book, writing this book, um, a close friend of mine inspired me to write it years ago because he knew that was my struggle. You know, he knew what I went through, and so what better way than to help other people with that. Um, and so, yeah, we need to be transparent and we need to share what we've been through.

Speaker 2:

Mm, hmm, Now that that was beautifully put and I think that you know too, when we come back. I know one of the other because I have so many questions, but I think for people to understand, like when you're a person of faith, no matter what your walk is, you know for for people to understand like we're still human and we're we're on this earth because we are sent.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you know what I'm saying and because of the things that we did do right, and just because we choose whatever our calling is that that doesn't take away from the work that needs to be done right as we're going after, whatever that purpose may be. So you know, I just want you to speak to that when we get back. But relationships matter. The podcast past are going to bless us when we get back after this break.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to relationships matter, the podcast. So, Josh, I want to talk to you about your journey today, because you said that you know you still not necessarily struggle, but you have a belief system, but you subscribe to a different channel of monogamy. So talk a little bit about that journey.

Speaker 2:

I think for me the best way to put it is just understanding that. You know pastor talked about it first and any and all things that we do. You know it's important to start spiritually you know that'd be the root and the foundation.

Speaker 2:

So, regardless of how I personally feel, there's instruction, there's something that's written, is there for us to see and for us to follow, and I try my best to make every effort in doing so. You know, now that's the hard part because, again, you know, my flesh may take over from time to time, but I really do give it the best effort that I can because I'm understanding that you know, one of my main goals is to make it back to the kingdom and I got to make sure that. You know, my resume looks as good as possible when it's my time. So that is what I choose over everything else. But I do know that I've grown, because it used to be a lot of action behind the words and everything else or the thoughts, and now I can at least freeze. You know what I mean To be like. Nah, let me pump the brakes a little bit.

Speaker 2:

But you know, and the other thing that's important to is just having transparent conversations at home, and it's not easy, you know. Like you know, pastor, you talked about it. I know me and Chanel have so many conversations, whether on camera or off, and it's just important that we do share, because then how could you know how to deal with me as a friend or how could you know how to deal with me as a friend if you don't know? Yeah, so that's why, for me, I try to be not scripted, because we got a lot of people who have platforms but they still keep a distance up, and I know pain when I see it. I know people that are doing what they're doing when I see it, and I try to be an example of something else, and I mean this conversation has just has really been a blessing just in talking about these different things, and I appreciate you for asking me.

Speaker 2:

You know I definitely want to get your take on. You know what that process looks like, because I know I'm not the only man struggling. You know I don't want to say struggle I know I'm not the only man that's going through that, whether you see it as a struggle or whether you see it as a challenge or however that looks, but I just, I just want to ask you like what, what is you know? I mean, what does that look like? I'm going to, I probably answer it like this.

Speaker 3:

I think the greatest and I'm going to say something a little might be a little controversial, but, um, and talking about lust in terms of wanting to be successful and be great and not allow lust to to be successful and not allow lust to to ruin your life um, especially with me being a pastor and leading people and I want to speak to other leaders that are in leadership and leading you know hundreds of people Um, I think one of the greatest challenges is to keep your draws up. Keep your draws up. I had a, I had a best friend. He says, man, you can do whatever you need to do in life. Keep your draws up. Make sure that you're not being enticed and, in certain rooms where you're tempted to be vulnerable, to give yourself away and I think we live in a society that promotes give yourself away to anybody, just take it off.

Speaker 3:

I do Bible studies on Instagram, tiktok, facebook, and I noticed that you know it's easy to go viral taking your clothes off. Anybody can get a million views taking your clothes off, but can you keep them on? And so I think one of the challenges is self-control. Um, when I think about my ministry, I think about pastoring, I think about people. I realized the. I know the only way to destroy it is to be enticed and to do something outside of my marriage and it'd go downhill. So my prayer consistently is Lord, keep me.

Speaker 3:

I'm not perfect, and anybody that's on a platform with major people uh, that that that would say it's easy is is wrong. They, they have to be sounded and grounded with God and have make a conscious decision that my character is more important than anything. At the end of the day, josh, when they say ashes to ashes, dust to dust, they're not going to remember my great sermons or sermons I preached. You know what they're going to remember. They're going to think about my character and they're going to say did he live a life that was exemplary or did he live a life that lined up with his public, his private? Did his private life line up with his public life?

Speaker 2:

To your point. Can you just speak on real quick If you you have the chance to let you know any viewer that's watching this? Um, you know members of your church that's watching this. Just share, whether it's from your perspective or things that you know as a whole, what is the hardest thing about being a pastor or person that's in leadership? Because, again, people have this idea right Of what it looks like or what you all go through and sometimes you know more times than none they have no idea.

Speaker 3:

Well, actually, one of the hardest things about being in leadership is wanting more for people than than than than what they want for themselves. Um, there are a lot of people that I come into contact with that I want to see grow and mature. Um, but they some have assumed that they've already arrived and are willing to be discipled, and I will. It have been groomed. So to want to see somebody or to see somebody doing better, but them not wanting to do better is a challenge. The other challenge is is is surrounding the people that are surrounding yourself with people who will actually support you.

Speaker 3:

Um, I pastor in Atlanta. Uh, there, there are pastors here that are great pastors, but it's a very territorial city, and so one of the main challenges is is getting the support of other pastors and growing together and this all get together and do a work for God, for the kingdom, but because there are so many leaders that are so gun-hole on having their people, their section or their followers, it's hard to collaborate. Is that God's will that? No, I have separation and division between leaders. No, that's not God's will.

Speaker 2:

That's why I stay Go ahead.

Speaker 3:

I said I'm glad you speak. That's why I I I stay them out. You know I stay in my lane and I do what I do and you know I'm just here. You know I'm here. People need me. Yeah, I decided a long time ago, josh and and just ministry, that, um, I'm not going to wait for nobody to give me no platform. Um, I'll use my phone and the camera on my phone and I'll speak to hundreds and thousands of people a day to encourage them. I'm not waiting for nobody to bring me in. People need hope, they need encouragement and they cannot wait for a conference for hope. They need it daily. Yeah, Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

What can we do better on our walk?

Speaker 3:

Put God, keep, continue to put God first. Uh, put you last and put God first.

Speaker 1:

I want to. Before we end this conversation, we still need to break it down. How do you break free from lust?

Speaker 3:

You have to ask God to literally deliver you from some of the soul ties that you've connected over the years. I think one of the greatest mistakes is, as some of us say, we're prepared for marriage, but when we get married we're still seeing our spouse through the lenses of somebody else we slept with. So it's imperative that we ask God to break us from every, every physical attraction we had, every physical encounter we had with somebody that we still carry around Um, um. Because if that not be, if, if you don't do that, then then the new partner or somebody that God sends you, you'll be doing them a disservice because you'll be wanting them to be like somebody else. And it's really demons. It's, it's, it's, the root of it is demons. Those are multiple demons in you.

Speaker 3:

I remember, um uh, years ago when I, when I struggled with it years ago, before I got married, um, after I slept with somebody. You might think I'm crazy. After I slept with somebody, I would literally go into my closet and pray and ask God to deliver me from what I just did. Immediately, I wouldn't even let it be, I wouldn't even get 24 hours soon as they left. But I'll be in my closet. God forgive me Cause I didn't want I. I I was involved in that act, but I did not want to carry around their spirit.

Speaker 2:

Did you ever say God, forgive me, like me at stroke, though?

Speaker 1:

Huh, you.

Speaker 3:

I'll see you later. I said all of it, god forgive me All the and oftentimes when I did it they were in another room.

Speaker 2:

They went out of the room. Yeah, there were another room. I think that's real, though. Like, listen, that's the keeping it a buck. You know, I'll just, I'll, just, I'll, just, I'll, just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just.

Speaker 3:

I didn't want to know. That's exactly what I was saying.

Speaker 2:

Listen, I know, for me there's been a time I'm like bruh, like being a middle and be thinking like man, what, what, what are you doing? So that that's why I asked I wasn't like trying to be like disrespectful, I mean, I just really like, because you know it's something that you didn't stop, though, when you thought, that did you.

Speaker 3:

For me because it seemed like I need to intervene here For me. For me, I stopped playing with my life when I realized that I could not be 100% for God and 100% for the devil. When I lifted my hands in church, I knew that when I lifted my hands to God, I didn't want anybody looking at me that I slept with saying he's fake. Wow, I don't want that testimony.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

Pastor, that's amazing. Go ahead.

Speaker 1:

Before we end. I did want to ask you because we were talking about this whole demonic thing, the multiple dating. Can you do you have any insight on that whole?

Speaker 3:

I don't think there's anything wrong with dating multiple people, but it needs to be time in between. Okay, you cannot date somebody this month and date them for six months and then you get right out of that into something else. There should be some intervals, some time to heal from what you just experienced to where you feel healthy enough to get into something else. When you date people, multiple people, consecutively, back to back, back to back, your spirit is now cluttered so you don't even know what you want. And then you started to build up a reputation. People started saying I was just with him or her last week, so you don't want to do that either. But to be delivered from that, you have to say Lord, prepare me If this is something you want.

Speaker 3:

A lot of, a lot of dating we do. God doesn't want you in, but because we're lonely, we get into it to satisfy temporal need. Might just be for the holidays I was with you, but as soon as the holidays are over with, I'm going to be done. I'm looking for a summer flink. Some people think like that, and so what happens is that we we get into multiple relationships because we think that sooner or later, through these multiple relationships, one of them is the one when, when all reality, none of them are the one, because if you prayed for God to bring you something or to prepare the right mate for you, then you have to wait on God. God's only going to bless what he has commissioned. He's not going to bless what you commissioned.

Speaker 1:

You may think about something. Then I saw this video clip, probably about two days ago, and it literally brought me to tears. It was a young lady, her name was Brittany Noel, and she talked about cause I've been seeking and petitioning God for a mate for years, right, and she talked about she went out on a date with this gentleman. He was a new person that she met and she was like he was everything that she liked Handsome. The date was wonderful. And when they went, when they were preparing to go on the second date, the date the day before, he called her up and said you know, you're an amazing woman, but I think I want to work it out with my ex. And she was smiling and said you know, thank you for your transparency.

Speaker 1:

But when she got off the phone she was like God, like why would you allow me to meet him if I can't have him, you know? She said why the unnecessary pain? And she said God had to sit her down and say I wanted to show you what you could have access to if you do the work. Like right now you're the same version of who you were in the last relationship and that thing like hit me like a ton of bricks, like it changed something on the inside of me really and truly, because I can think of three different times where I prayed that prayer and said God, why would you allow this? Why would you allow me to encounter this person if I couldn't have him? Why the unnecessary pain, you know? And so I wanted to bring that up during this show because that's like go ahead.

Speaker 3:

Well, I want to say this I think God likes to surprise us. I don't think he necessarily wants us to know everything all the time. So even if we meet somebody that we assume perfect for us I met them, I could see myself with them he allows us to make choice. But then God likes to surprise you. He likes to give you something you never saw coming, something that was beyond your imagination. And I say that to say that a lot of times, when we deem or we think somebody is for us or this could potentially be the one, it may not be the one. It may be someone, that God, that you have not seen yet.

Speaker 3:

Last night in Bible study I talked about sometime with faith. You can see it, but then you can't see it. Sometimes you can be in a season where you see it coming, but then you don't see it coming. What does that mean? That means that sometimes we can see things through the spirit, sometimes we can see things through the flesh. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't.

Speaker 3:

And in this particular case, all this is preparation for who God's getting ready to send for you. There is a certain work that must take place inside of you for marriage and for what God has for you. It isn't that you're not beautiful, it's not that you don't have the wisdom or that you don't possess what it takes to be a great wife. It's God's making sure that whoever gets you knows who they have. Vice versa, and whoever he sends to you, they're gonna know your worth, they're gonna know your value and all those other things.

Speaker 3:

Furthermore, god knows the troubles and the problems of the individual who we may have fought was for us Could have been a great day at Carabas, we could have enjoyed the movie, had a nice little night out, but God saw it down. In the future, well, this person's gonna do this to you. But yeah, I would just say to even those that are single, that are waiting for a mate, let God prepare you, let him train you for who he's going to send for you. If you have a desire to be married, then you're gonna be married, a system at a time. You don't wanna rush and get into something for five minutes and then it'll take you five years to get out of it.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. And the whole reason that me bringing that up is I wanted you to speak to the weight Cause. In that weight process you could do some crazy stuff and get caught up in some crazy soul-tied entanglements, things of that nature. So I wanted you to speak to that. But we have come to the end of our show. Bishop, lord Jesus, oh yeah, I'll tell you that we have come to the end of our show. Pastor Dwight, I want you to tell people how they can find your book Breaking the Cycles of Lust.

Speaker 3:

Breaking the Cycle of Lust. You can find it at Amazon or Barnes Noble, online in the store or online. You can find it there. It's everywhere on all book outlets pretty much.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. And where can people find you on social media? Cause you said you have Bible study on TikTok Instagram.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, pastor Dwight Buckner Jr. Instagram. Pastor Dwight Buckner Jr. Tiktok Facebook same handle. All my accounts are verified so you'll be able to find me, cause there's some folk that be saying they follow me and they've been giving away money to strangers using my picture. Wow. So, yeah, make sure it's a blue check by the name.

Speaker 2:

Well, just want to give you some love, brother, and tell you, man, we appreciate you For one, just being somebody that others can look up to. You know what I mean the community leader. You know a loving husband. You know what I mean Somebody that has principles, morals and values. You know what I mean Just being a great example of successful man, successful businessman and continuing to spread the word. Just want to say thank you for coming up here sharing your time. This could have easily went for two hours or maybe even longer. Just a beautiful conversation, man. It's always a pleasure to be in your presence, so just praying that you continue to stay blessed in your journey. You know, thank you for your words in regards to even with myself and just the things that I learned through this conversation. But we truly appreciate you, man, and we hope that you know we can do this again sometime. And God bless you, brother. And relationships matter. The podcast past the white. We appreciate you, my brother.

Speaker 3:

Amen, amen. Can I say one more thing for me?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

I just want to speak over your broadcast this podcast, but I was feeling when I was sitting here that this is going to be national and international, and so this is not the day of small beginning. God's going to do a great work with this relationship podcast and I even see a show and several several networks reaching out to you all, because the transparency on this show is going to bless millions of people.

Speaker 1:

Wow, thank you for that.